Thoughts and Musings on the Ineos Grenadier

[Shep The Disco]

Well if you want me to test a grenadier for 200k miles then send me one.

When you are doing 80-100k miles across potato and cabbage fields , around country lanes and it's used by various drivers 365 days a year 

In no way do they pay and I suspect they will go the same way as the pickups that are less than half the price.

Add in snow and road salt along with some general animal slurry even washing them weekly they will do the same as any other pick up.

[Snagger]

2 hours ago, Shep The Disco said:

Well if you want me to test a grenadier for 200k miles then send me one.

When you are doing 80-100k miles across potato and cabbage fields , around country lanes and it's used by various drivers 365 days a year 

In no way do they pay and I suspect they will go the same way as the pickups that are less than half the price.

Add in snow and road salt along with some general animal slurry even washing them weekly they will do the same as any other pick up.

Well, I’m glad you can see the future with such clarity and certainty, especially not having taken a close look at the vehicle or its specs and build methods and materials.  Now, about next week’s lottery numbers… 🙄

[Shep The Disco]

No vehicle these days is built to go beyond 200k miles even with the wind behind downhill.

IF the grenadier does do this then I'll stand corrected however when company's such as Toyota and ford don't achieve this how is a small production company going to get anywhere close.

Parts are parts and that's how it is.

A farm or quarry pickup truck will be used hard and to get 200k miles out of them is very good going.

Like I said give me a grenadier to work and I can most likely prove it's no different to any other work vehicle apart from it's inflated price.

 

[deep]

And here we go again, trying to put a station wagon and a pick-up truck in the same market!  I am interested in the original Grenadier precisely because it isn't a pickup truck and would be even more interested if it came as a van/hardtop version.  I can't imagine that the majority of buyers were ever considering a pick up truck as an option.

Yes, there is the Quartermaster (brilliant name) version but I don't think it was really intended to compete with the cheaper, mass-market pick-ups.  However, I do see the case where someone wants something less easily destroyed than a Hi-Lux or Triton and, taking the long term view, would choose a Quartermaster - provided it actually is as tough and long-lasting as we assume it will be.  When you look at the money being asked for older Land Rovers with 200-250,000 miles on the clock, I can see a Grenadier (with comparable appeal) still commanding a very high price when it's ten years old and done the work that would have killed two cheapies.  The only real question mark is the BMW motor and they seem to be durable enough in most cases.

[Bowie69]

Toyotas often have 500Km down under... 

[Shep The Disco]

15 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

Toyotas often have 500Km down under... 

One of the many here at work has 342k miles on...

Most are up over 250k miles before they go down the road.

Thing is at there cost doing that sort of miles the grenadier is just too expensive to take a punt.

[Chicken Drumstick]

10 hours ago, Shep The Disco said:

The grenadier is a modern take on a well known utility vehicle that not only is expensive but doesn't meet the cost needs for the working folk.

Adding tractor prices into the equation is pointless as these are working plant vehicles not run around buses to be disposed of once worn out after 3 years.

On the farm we have an E plate (1988) hard top and a 1989 F plate pickup. The hard top isn’t used anymore because there is a 2012 Puma too. But the 35 year old pickup is still going strong. Not all farm vehicles are disposed off after 3 years. In fact I know of almost no farmers in the area that do bar maybe the large farm contracting outfits. Who I can honestly see them running some Grenadier as they would be very fit for purpose. They run a fleet of Fastracs and Fendts. 

[Chicken Drumstick]

10 hours ago, Shep The Disco said:

There's Hilux here at 3 years old with over 200k miles on absolutely nackered and the grenadier is in no way made any more longer lasting than those.

Your profile says Highlands? As in Scotland? 200,000 miles in 3 years surely has to be exception rather than the norm. 
 

To put that in perspective. That would be 8000hrs of driving. In 3 years you would, every single day need to drive for approx 8hrs. I don’t see how you could get any work done at all if you needed to spend 8hrs every day driving, it certainly wouldn’t be anything farming related. I would guess more likely your claim is probably not founded in reality. 

[Shep The Disco]

3 minutes ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

Your profile says Highlands? As in Scotland? 200,000 miles in 3 years surely has to be exception rather than the norm. 
 

To put that in perspective. That would be 8000hrs of driving. In 3 years you would, every single day need to drive for approx 8hrs. I don’t see how you could get any work done at all if you needed to spend 8hrs every day driving, it certainly wouldn’t be anything farming related. I would guess more likely your claim is probably not founded in reality. 

When you are out for 15 hrs checking crops every day it's very easy to do 300 miles a day and mix in miles of pest control fencing too.

Leave home 05.00hrs and get home 20.00hrs most days 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Shep The Disco

[deep]

In that case, you would fully justify a nice, comfortable vehicle and something upmarket would be worth every cent!

Though, being such a depressing lifestyle choice, you'd probably be too tired to care and would be a massive risk to other road users anyway.  In this country, you'd actually be breaking the law.

[Shep The Disco]

No time limits on driving 4x4 .

2 hours here ..... break go round a field....2 hours there ...break go round a field. Paid by the hour....

No issues there.😁

Edited December 29, 2023 by Shep The Disco

[jeremy996]

30 minutes ago, Shep The Disco said:

No time limits on driving 4x4 .

2 hours here ..... break go round a field....2 hours there ...break go round a field. Paid by the hour....

No issues there.😁

You will certainly be falling foul of the Working Time Directive, unless you were foolish enough to opt out. If you are an owner/director you can work yourself into the ground, but you are not entitled to ask staff to do similar. Don't injure youself or a third party; you will trigger a HSE world of pain and driving while impaired by fatigue is still a traffic offence. 

Tomororrow I'll be driving my nice comfortable, quiet Grenadier from home to Newcastle and back, 360 miles and roughly 6 hours, delivering son in time for his New Year's do. I would not volunteer in the LR110 or LR90.

[Shep The Disco]

Vehicle under 3.5t used for maintenance is exempt from time restrictions.

I work 80+ hrs a week . It's about how you manage time .

Regular breaks. Food etc 8.5 hrs sleep every 24 hrs .

It's all fine amigo 😁... Im Not the only one. There are well over 200 vehicles in the company that also do this.😁 Also not the only company that does this.

The one I work for is on the smaller side of this type of operation 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Shep The Disco

[jeremy996]

3 minutes ago, Shep The Disco said:

Vehicle under 3.5t used for maintenance is exempt from time restrictions.

I work 80+ hrs a week . It's about how you manage time .

Regular breaks. Food etc 8.5 hrs sleep every 24 hrs .

It's all fine amigo 😁

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/regulation/4

It's not how you manage time, it's how you avoid getting yourself or your employer locked up. If you are really doing 80 hours a week on a sustained basis, there is something badly wrong. 

[Shep The Disco]

It's common place across the country amigo.

It's how mass food production works.

There are literally 10s of thousands of people doing this. 

I've been through it with HR very carefully and no laws are being broken..😁

I also make a lot of money because I choose to work the hours I do. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Shep The Disco

[Shep The Disco]

@jeremy996 back on topic ...

Do you really think paying such a huge amount of money for a 4x4 grenadier when things like Toyota,ford and Isuzu definitely have the market covered is worth it?

Personally for an unproven vehicle these figures don't pay for what I do.

[jeremy996]

Yes, or I would not have done it. The vehicle as an assembly is unproven but the components are often off the shelf. The major wear components are massively over-specified compared to rivals, (which is why it is overweight), so a long life is not unreasonable. Look underneath a Grenadier and it looks more like a lorry; Land Rovers look a bit dainty in comparison.

I could afford a D5, new Defender, RR Sport or FFRR, but I don't want one; my local Toyota dealer has no stock and no interest in 4x4s, I've seen too many broken L200s, Navarras and Rangers and I'm old enough for a bit of comfort. After 18 years of elderly Defenders and two fraught rebuilds, it was time for something new.

Your priorities are not mine; as part of Reduce, Reuse, Recycle, I want to buy less "stuff" but fewer items of a higher quality. It will take 20 years to see if I backed the right horse, but I'll be 80 by then and I still won't be able to afford the Mercedes G Wagen, which is probably the only serious alternative. If you think of the Grenadier as a half-price G Wagen, (Sir Jim Radcliffe said as much), you might understand where I'm coming from.

[Shep The Disco]

Yeah I get your point.

Thing is for the grenadier to become comercaly viable it needs to have a history where I work.

Unfortunately the time is now and food production is a fast paced business that runs on disposable things such as vehicles.

On my days off I work pulling trailers for another company that also produces food.

Yes my choice is to work a stupid amount of hours but by the time I get to your current age I will not have a need to work or any debts so perhaps then I might buy a grenadier...

[jeremy996]

The big utility companies buy vehicles in batches of 20-1000, so the cost is usually well discounted. If they are building a special like a Quadtech or access lift, the extra costs are in the £10,000s - £100,000s, so the marginal savings are pretty irrelevant. Most utilities want a decent residual on their special builds, so the 5 year warranty on the Grenadier will hit a sweet spot. 

I know that Ineos have been romancing the Utility companies; the Quartermaster double cab is now launched and the chassis cab is on the way for special builds. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by jeremy996
scale of purchase

[Shep The Disco]

4 minutes ago, jeremy996 said:

The big utility companies buy vehicles in batches of 20-1000, so the cost is usually well discounted. If they are building a special like a Quadtech or access lift, the extra costs are in the £10,000s - £100,000s, so the marginal savings are pretty irrelevant. Most utilities want a decent residual on their special builds, so the 5 year warranty on the Grenadier will hit a sweet spot. 

I know that Ineos have been romancing the Utility companies; the Quartermaster double cab is now launched and the chassis cab is on the way for special builds. 

Yes I'm keeping up with what I can.

I was on power lines before food and I'm well aware of corporate discount that's given on vehicle purchases.

It will be interesting to see how many take the bait from ineos....

It can only benefit the private buyers.😬

[forkrentfitter]

20 hours ago, Shep The Disco said:

Yeah I get your point.

Thing is for the grenadier to become comercaly viable it needs to have a history where I work.

Unfortunately the time is now and food production is a fast paced business that runs on disposable things such as vehicles.

On my days off I work pulling trailers for another company that also produces food.

Yes my choice is to work a stupid amount of hours but by the time I get to your current age I will not have a need to work or any debts so perhaps then I might buy a grenadier...

unless you are dead of course.

i have seen many men worj 80 hour weeks on the docks earning a **** ton of money, plenty of them didnt make retirement.......

[deep]

1 hour ago, forkrentfitter said:

unless you are dead of course.

i have seen many men worj 80 hour weeks on the docks earning a **** ton of money, plenty of them didnt make retirement.......

Pretty much what I was going to say!

[Shep The Disco]

🤣🤣🤣👍

I work at a steady pace. Keep myself fit and alert. Rest accordingly.

Everyone dies eventually but by the time Im 52 I'll be debt free and way ahead than most.

Then I'll find something else to do... Maybe nothing but play but hey you only live once and it would sure be a boring place if everyone just mumbled along.

I might start drinking and smoking ..... everyone has to do that once in their life.🤣😁

Might buy a G-wagon ..,might buy a Ferrari....

Might buy a grenadier..... 

 

Then again I might just go wander around the world with my dog...

Thing is will the grenadier keep up because so far I only see the big brands trying......🤔

Edited December 30, 2023 by Shep The Disco

[Anderzander]

This is quite a strange conversation !

I’m 52, debt free, can’t afford a Ferrari - but then I’ve worked 32 hours over 4 days for the last 20 years. I value the time more.

Which is actually the calculation I did when I decided I coveted a Grenadier - I do really like them, in fact I can’t think of any other new car I’d buy but that one….  

but I want the money to go into retiring early - and I still love my Land Rovers.
 

 

[Shep The Disco]

Yeah well then is the grenadier over priced/ built to actually create a market for itself?

Sure there will always be retirees with spare money for a "toy" but for me when I decide to buy such a vehicle for private use I'll be looking for something reasonable.

With the build specification of a grenadier it's target would surely be the working/ military sector and they don't really like spending.

The builders and farmers want a 3 year plan then chop in for a new one so yes they are great on paper with regards to build quality but is it something that will sell....