Waterless coolant

[Badger110]

Does anyone have an experience with this in their vehicle?

 

I’m replacing the radiator and was looking at a decent coolant for the upcoming trip and came across Evans waterless coolant.

 

It does look to be a faff to set up ( no water allowed in the system (less than 3%)) but the benefits seem to be worth it.

 

[elbekko]

Do you actually have any cooling issues?

Seems to be a huge pain that you can't refill with water in a pinch.

[Bowie69]

Yeah, I wouldn't bother on any older vehicle -something else to carry if you have a small leak and need to top up

Not cheap either.

[smallfry]

A mate of mine has it in his trackday BMW. More than that I cant say. I wouldnt bother with a road vehicle, but if you have issues, try Redline Waterwetter. It works.

I use filtered water in all my stuff, along with the appropriate antifreeze. Never had a problem except for a Fox through the radiator, but I guess that doesnt count !

[Arjan]

We use coolant.
Cheapish and worked well for the past 40 years.

[L19MUD]

The Evans stuff is popular (and I think originally designed for) with vintage car owners. We have a 1929 Morris Cowley that does get warm if it has to sit in traffic, this car does not have a waterpump and relies on the radiator and fan too cool the water and create a flow. We had planned on using Evans on this t see if it would help

[FridgeFreezer]

58 minutes ago, elbekko said:

Seems to be a huge pain that you can't refill with water in a pinch.

^^^ this hits the nail on the head, especially for overlanding, you do not want something sensitive & complicated that you can't fix in the field.

Also if your cooling system can't cool the vehicle perfectly well with normal coolant then your cooling system has big problems and fancy coolant is not the answer.

[Badger110]

3 hours ago, L19MUD said:

The Evans stuff is popular (and I think originally designed for) with vintage car owners. We have a 1929 Morris Cowley that does get warm if it has to sit in traffic, this car does not have a waterpump and relies on the radiator and fan too cool the water and create a flow. We had planned on using Evans on this t see if it would help

That’s what I gathered from the various online reviews.

It does look to be popular with the air cooled engines too, trail bikes etc.

 

[Badger110]

4 hours ago, elbekko said:

Do you actually have any cooling issues?

Seems to be a huge pain that you can't refill with water in a pinch.

No issues but as I’m replacing a tired radiator and flushing the system through, I thought I’d ask if there was a benefit or some experience of it

[miketomcat]

All I'll say is read this.

a perfect example of why you have a standard truck or standard parts on it for overlanding. Currently my ibex has just water in it and a temporary bolt in the inlet manifold......nuff said.

Mike

 

[Nonimouse]

It was developed for cars that sat aroud alot - hence the popularity with the classic car market. It doesn't improve the efficacy of the cooling system - for that you need a water wetter, something that reduces the surface tension on the water, so removing any nasty little catch points in the system. 

flush the system backwatds and forwards, fit the new rad, then fill with either distilled water or water (I've never had an issue with later, as long as you refresh coolant regularly) and the correct percentage of anti-freeze (which shouldn't be called anti-freeze, because that's not it's only job. Glycol for glycol engines, OAT for OAT engines, never mix the two. Glycol is best, but modern engines tend not to like it.

 

[Badger110]

That’s the answer I was looking for

[Snagger]

On 8/19/2022 at 4:35 PM, Nonimouse said:

It was developed for cars that sat aroud alot - hence the popularity with the classic car market. It doesn't improve the efficacy of the cooling system - for that you need a water wetter, something that reduces the surface tension on the water, so removing any nasty little catch points in the system. 

flush the system backwatds and forwards, fit the new rad, then fill with either distilled water or water (I've never had an issue with later, as long as you refresh coolant regularly) and the correct percentage of anti-freeze (which shouldn't be called anti-freeze, because that's not it's only job. Glycol for glycol engines, OAT for OAT engines, never mix the two. Glycol is best, but modern engines tend not to like it.

 

I didn’t know that was the purpose, but it makes sense.  To be honest, I wouldn’t think it much different from using a far cheaper 50/50 mix of distilled water and antifreeze - most antifreeze has all the corrosion inhibitors, lubricants and seal conditioners that are needed and will last a pretty long time, and can be topped up with water if needed.  There are plenty of expensive fluids and additives in the auto industry which offer no real advantage or are even detrimental to the vehicle (Slick 50, Amtech, oil thickeners and so on).

[Nonimouse]

4 hours ago, Snagger said:

I didn’t know that was the purpose, but it makes sense.  To be honest, I wouldn’t think it much different from using a far cheaper 50/50 mix of distilled water and antifreeze - most antifreeze has all the corrosion inhibitors, lubricants and seal conditioners that are needed and will last a pretty long time, and can be topped up with water if needed.  There are plenty of expensive fluids and additives in the auto industry which offer no real advantage or are even detrimental to the vehicle (Slick 50, Amtech, oil thickeners and so on).

I'm a believer in Slick 50 - I went to one of the formula three demo's in the early 90's

[Snagger]

I have read many comments that it can cause piston ring coking and bore glazing.  My rebuilt Tdi had it from 1500 miles on and suffers those problems.  May be unrelated, but I previously rebuilt a 12J and ran it without those problems on straight mineral oil, even staying clean when running 100% SVO.  Occam’s razor and all that…

I have used it in gearboxes on the 109 with no I’ll effect and possible benefit.  I think the RR’s R380 grinding on changing up to second got a bit worse for adding Slick 50, the baulk ring perhaps struggling more to synchronise. A common problem, but the timing of the exacerbation and the slight improvement a while after the next MTF replacement seem fairly compelling.

[smallfry]

Oils nowadays need no additives. In a lot of cases in is actually counter productive.

I remember seeing a demo some years ago, using the two ball test (I cant remember the correct name for it) but it comprised of a steel drum that turned on a spindle, and two hard  bearing balls pressed against it with increasing pressure, until the drum was marked by the two balls. One ball had no lubricant applied, and the other had the lubricant/additive being tested. The pressure applied was recorded, so obviously the lubricant that recorded the highest pressure without the drum being marked, was the winner.

They tested WD40, an engine oil (cant remember what make or grade) an additive called XXXtralube, one called Nulon (similar to Slick50) and something else.

Guess what was the winner by a long way ?

It was the something else, which was Head and Shoulders shampoo !

 

[FridgeFreezer]

My mate who is a professional tribologist for a petrochemical additives company (as in, they sell the chemicals that make your engine oil do what it does) likens Slick50 etc. to altering the mix of a cake - sure, you need an egg or two in your cake, but putting 50 eggs in a cake does not make the cake work better.

As ever, if billion-dollar oil companies and billion-dollar manufacturers could magically make their stuff that much more reliable and long-lived than the competition by squirting in some magic potion, they'd already be doing it.

[Nonimouse]

3 hours ago, Snagger said:

I have read many comments that it can cause piston ring coking and bore glazing.  My rebuilt Tdi had it from 1500 miles on and suffers those problems.  May be unrelated, but I previously rebuilt a 12J and ran it without those problems on straight mineral oil, even staying clean when running 100% SVO.  Occam’s razor and all that…

I have used it in gearboxes on the 109 with no I’ll effect and possible benefit.  I think the RR’s R380 grinding on changing up to second got a bit worse for adding Slick 50, the baulk ring perhaps struggling more to synchronise. A common problem, but the timing of the exacerbation and the slight improvement a while after the next MTF replacement seem fairly compelling.

I don't use it - but mainly because it's expensive

I generally stick to Shell Rimula 15w40 Mineral oil. It's what we use in all the plant on the farm, so it comes in 205litre barrels. For some odd reason , that I have forgotten, I'm running 10w40 Smith & Allen semi synth at the moment and it's not goping to be in more than 3k if I can help it