Need a new refurbed Salisbury axle...

[roamingyak]

Hi all,

My rear axle casing cracked, I had it welded up, did another 3 months in Africa, but it cracked again. Welded again super strong bushman style, but defiantly keen to replace it now.
My Landy is a 1991 200TDI, but it has a 300TDI rear axle with discs (2006 TD5 axle on front).

Does anybody supply refurbished Salisbury axles please? Might be easier to ship a complete one down here, quality and time wise at least...

Cheers, Darrin
https://www.youtube.com/@roamingyak
 

Edited March 3, 2023 by roamingyak
Fun :-)

[Gazzar]

My uninformed opinion? I'd sleeve that axle. For what you are doing it would be sufficiently strong without the hassle of importing. 

Good bush mechanic with a stick welder would do it in a day or two, if you could obtain a decent piece of thick tube of the right diameter.

[Stellaghost]

51 minutes ago, roamingyak said:

Hi all,

My rear axle casing cracked, I had it welded up, did another 3 months in Africa, but it cracked again. Welded again super strong bushman style, but defiantly keen to replace it now.
My Landy is a 1991 200TDI, but it has a 300TDI rear axle with discs (2006 TD5 axle on front).

Does anybody supply refurbished Salisbury axles please? Might be easier to ship a complete one down here, quality and time wise at least...

Cheers, Darrin
https://www.youtube.com/@roamingyak
 

Are your welders grinding the crack out into a v shape so you get full depth penetration also you could think about adding some heavy box section similar to what the military do to their axles to increase the strength of the axle case

I would also consider a winch for self recovery, should get you out of more situations than a locker, a decent winch and ground anchor system with a couple of rope extensions would have probably freed you of the rivers clutches

Regards Stephen

[uninformed]

The weld on the edge of the bumpstop pad has created a stress riser. The forces at the wheel, which are resisted by the trailing arm, coil spring and bumpstop pad (when it comes into play), created a bending moment. This is exactly why strengthening an axle housing between the bumpstops is a BAD idea. 
 

Good work in getting it back on the road. Unfortunately it has not lasted longer.

 

If you get a new housing, make sure it’s from a 130 as these have thicker walled tubes. LR in their wisdom took the Series Salisbury housing and extended to tubes without increasing wall thickness. This along with a combination of the link suspension (changing the dynamics from the former leaf sprung set up) has lead to failures in 110 housings. More often they pull tubes from the cast centre section, again a result of the bending moment and too thin a tube. 
 

I would check your tubes where they insert into the cast Centre section before attempting any repairs. 
 

if you do repair it, I’d make sure the tube is welded properly first before sleeving or overlaying it. Be aware that how and where the overlay finishes is important as it creates a change in stiffness that can lead to more cracking….

 

[Gazzar]

I'll take a photo of the military bracing on a series axle this morning, might give you ideas.

[elbekko]

Grind out, weld up and add a truss over it like the 'muricans do?

[Gazzar]

All variations on the theme "add more steel".

 

[Gazzar]

These are axles from an armoured series lightweight Landrover. Most likely from the Northern Ireland conflict. But shows how the addition of channel can greatly strengthen an axle. Just some square channel cut to fit the profile and welded along the existing tube. 

Front axle, at an angle to the ground:

Rear axle, straight to the ground.

 

I'd seam weld the whole thing to prevent dirt getting in there, or leave holes so it could be washed out.

And, a tip I was given by a freuhauff trailer engineer, when writing cracks, weld a brace across, not inline, the crack, the stress that caused the fracture is not going to crack the brace.

[Snagger]

For a replacement, I would look first at PA Blanchard,  but since the MoD ran early 110s with drum rear brakes until they got the Wolfs with the P38 rear axle, you might not be able to get a disc brakes Salisbury from them.  Craddock is not one of my favoured suppliers, but they are likely to have one.  You could also try Famous Four and Devon 4x4.  Otherwise, it is going to be pot-luck with second hand units.  Whatever you do, it’ll be expensive, especially with shipping.

I think the advice given on proper repair, with the crack opened up to give a deep rather than superficial weld is good, as I’d the recommendation for strong internal sleeving - there is plenty of space to fit a thick wall tube between existing inner wall and shafts.  I would recommend you do both of those repairs if you are satisfied with the diff and brakes, as it will be considerably cheaper and quicker to sort than shipping a new axle, and done properly, will be a good deal stronger.

[roamingyak]

17 hours ago, Stellaghost said:

Are your welders grinding the crack out into a v shape so you get full depth penetration also you could think about adding some heavy box section similar to what the military do to their axles to increase the strength of the axle case

I would also consider a winch for self recovery, should get you out of more situations than a locker, a decent winch and ground anchor system with a couple of rope extensions would have probably freed you of the rivers clutches

Regards Stephen

First time was with a good German mechanic, I use him for most things and as he said "I've welded up loads of axles, mostly on Toyotas"
We took off the axle, drained the oil, cleaned and prepped it well (apparently, I have no clue, I'd use chewing gum 😜) including slightly filing the edges and welded up/down the crack, slowly so it didn't get too hot and bend it etc.

Second time is as you see in Botswana, the local bloke who fixes everything in his backyard, no need to drain the oil apparently, quick clean with a toothbrush, left to right welding and lots of it.
So I don't trust the casing is the issue really... how cracked inside is it?
I spend months in the bush alone so need things to be risk free as much as possible 😉

I started my 3 years 112,000km trip around Africa with a winch. I went to use it after 2 years to remove a tree that was blocking the road, and it didn't work. Sold it.
When I have been stuck, I find there is usually nothing to winch from. And please correct my ignorance, but aren't ground anchors always baulky and heavy?
The combined weight of the winch and anchors would be quite a lot?
For context, in 7 years of driving I've probably been hopeless stuck about 6-7 times. Stuck in total about 30 times? Digging, high lift and the waffle boards usually do the trick. Though I've now added an exhaust jack to my arsenal and found it excellent, if unusable when tipping over would be an issue.

[roamingyak]

15 hours ago, uninformed said:

The weld on the edge of the bumpstop pad has created a stress riser. The forces at the wheel, which are resisted by the trailing arm, coil spring and bumpstop pad (when it comes into play), created a bending moment. This is exactly why strengthening an axle housing between the bumpstops is a BAD idea. 

Yes, that was my simple take on it - the weld in adding the bump stop creates a weak point to stress bend/crack it.
Metal fatigue after 25 odd years and pot holes/sudden bumps etc etc all take their toll....

Edited March 4, 2023 by roamingyak

[roamingyak]

Thanks for the replies everybody - greatly appreciated!! 🙂
I'll send a few enquires and see what the options are from those provided.
Heartening to hear that fixed up the existing axle is a solid option as well, and maybe much cheaper (hurrah!)

I bought an apparently sold axle housing off the main Landy bloke in Botswana, but can get my money back on it if need be.

Cheers, Darrin
https://www.youtube.com/@roamingyak

 

[Happyoldgit]

@roamingyak Pop a wanted advert in the wanted forum here as perhaps not everyone reads this section.

[uninformed]

Adding tube inside is not the strongest way BUT has some advantages. 
 

given the external bracketry, internal probably has a better or easier chance to create less change in stiffness (abrupt change in stiffness is BAD) 

It would also allow good alignment. You want a thought out procedure not only for the structural implications of the finished welds but the inherent distortion you get from welding. If your housing is bent, you are much more likely to strip splines or shear bolts….

Trussing like the Americans do is tricky. Firstly their housings have thicker tubes to start with so the relationship regarding stiffness is a little different. They also mostly are seen on fully built housings where the truss runs further outboard, coil overs and even upper control arms mounted off the truss. This is important as it’s taking the increase in strength beyond the highest stress point and not stopping at it! 
 

While it might not be the cheapest a good 130 housing would be the most simple. 

[FridgeFreezer]

As Uninformed says - 130's had a stronger axle casing than 110's, worth looking for the right part number

But yes I'd definitely sleeve/brace that axle, it's not hard to do while the welder is out just make sure you're not creating a new stress point.

I notice you're running quite thick springs with helpers, these may be contributing to the problem - HD suspension (springs, shocks, bushes) may prevent saggy suspension but they're putting all that load into the axle & chassis, you're not the first overlander to crack major assemblies with HD suspension.

I'd look closely at what springs, shocks and bushes you're running and see if you can soften them up a little.

[Nonimouse]

On 3/4/2023 at 2:46 PM, roamingyak said:

First time was with a good German mechanic, I use him for most things and as he said "I've welded up loads of axles, mostly on Toyotas"
We took off the axle, drained the oil, cleaned and prepped it well (apparently, I have no clue, I'd use chewing gum 😜) including slightly filing the edges and welded up/down the crack, slowly so it didn't get too hot and bend it etc.

Second time is as you see in Botswana, the local bloke who fixes everything in his backyard, no need to drain the oil apparently, quick clean with a toothbrush, left to right welding and lots of it.
So I don't trust the casing is the issue really... how cracked inside is it?
I spend months in the bush alone so need things to be risk free as much as possible 😉

I started my 3 years 112,000km trip around Africa with a winch. I went to use it after 2 years to remove a tree that was blocking the road, and it didn't work. Sold it.
When I have been stuck, I find there is usually nothing to winch from. And please correct my ignorance, but aren't ground anchors always baulky and heavy?
The combined weight of the winch and anchors would be quite a lot?
For context, in 7 years of driving I've probably been hopeless stuck about 6-7 times. Stuck in total about 30 times? Digging, high lift and the waffle boards usually do the trick. Though I've now added an exhaust jack to my arsenal and found it excellent, if unusable when tipping over would be an issue.

Did you service the winch every three months?  If not, thats why it failed. There isn't a winch on the market that's designed to take on Africa - even those that were, like the X9 or the Husky needed help

However, I agree with you about the real world usefullness of one. I always found, that when travelling in remote areas, there was always someone who would come along and help. I took a Honda XL600LMF to Cape Town, about thirty years ago. I took the westcoast route and hit the Congo in a late rainy season. I would get stuck 50 of times a day, with a bike that weighed 155kgs dry. Every time I thought I couldn't go on, some helpful soul would turn up. Restored my faith in human kind and is a memory I treasure.

Fitting a locker will get you stuck more often and will make it more difficult to recover as you will be stuck 'better' 

Look at weight distribution in the vehicle (possibly a reason for the axle failure) and use the articulaltion to your advantage. Pick your routes carefully.

As for the axle, there will be a Land Rover breaker in every country in Africa. Grab a drum braked axle and use your exisiting axle parts to convert it to disc brake - or be radical, just fit a drum braked axle and learn to maintain drum brakes.

Good luck

[Snagger]

That point about locking diffs getting you stuck further in came up in another recent discussion, as did the idea of mounting winches on the back end instead.  Maybe having the diffs unlocked for forward drive and only locking them to reverse out might be beneficial. 🤔. I have read about folk fitting one pair of directional mud tyres reversed, so that it gives better aid for reversing out of an obstruction.  I don’t know if it’s already too late by then for it to work, but it does have a certain logic.

[FridgeFreezer]

I always try to go into things gently with no lockers, that way I can usually reverse out and have the lockers to help me if I need them - at a play day it's a bit different, out in the real world caution is the name of the game.

Nearly every overland build I've ever seen has a winch and massive bull bar and I've never seen many (if any) pictures of anyone actually using them in reality as you say the common option is a gang of locals and/or the next passing vehicle plus a tow rope to get you out.

[uninformed]

I should probably just 2wd convert my 110…

[Snagger]

How are you getting on?

[Little mule]

I bought my Salisbury axles from Hobson 

My front axle was out of a 110 1 ton and the rear from a 130 .

the axles and about 3000 miles on them and you get everything HUB to HUB ,brakes flex lines all steering components . Drive shaft and adaptor , sway bar and mounts . It was all crated up and when they crated it they bent a front backing plate . They sent me two new ones to replace the bents ones .

the axles are as rust free as you can get .

they come in 21L and 22L configurations right and left hand drive respectively .

I paid 800 quid for the front and it was worth every penny .

 As suggested sleeping the tube is the best option if you can not afford a complete axle .you won’t brake one once sleeved or as in ssome cases trussed like the above pics .

Tony 

[Ed Poore]

Sorry it's a bit late @roamingyak but I gave a mate in Guildford my 110's old 300Tdi Salisbury (disc braked) axle when I replaced it with a Wolf axle. He's not far from @Hybrid_From_Hell so perhaps the axle could be acquired, overhauled (and potentially trussed) by our resident diff expert and shipped out?

[Little mule]

I would love to have the 6x6 but there are too many projects going on and they aren’t mine lol.

this job I have in my shop now is the last one I’m doing . I’m going to be working on my own trucks from now on .

I have a d1 that’s been waiting forever to have the 4.6 stroked and balanced engine installed into it . 
then there is my RRC 

im still tossing around installing the Salisbury axles into my D1 because it’s my off road truck .

one has a tru-trac in it for the rear and I might install another true - trac in the front .

It will have the 4x2 conversion done as well as the RRC . I have a brand new HP24 I might pull the guts out of and install into my HP22 just to beef everything up for off reading . 
I’ll just be running stock ratios and a 1.4 Tcase so I can fit the 33,s on it but that’s it .

I thought installing the Salisbury axles might help keep the center of gravity lower but it’s a Land Rover lol.

I bought a safety devices 6 point inner roll cage and might install it into the RRC because we know how good they are in you roll them over even if it’s just on the road way and not off road .

I might just copy the whole cage and install one into the D1 that should be easy enough with a pipe bender and some sand so the corners of the pipe bends don’t kink .

with the Salisbury’s in the D1 I need to have custom drive shafts made with double cardinal joints on each end because of the 2 inch lift and the 33,s the angles  are just too much with the Salisbury axle input centreline is lower than the rover type diff. And every rover diff I have is just plain worn out . The center pins have worn the case oval so they are now junk lol unless I install a locker of some type .

im sure the RRC with rover type diffs should hold up to the very tuned 300 and the over drive . The 4x2 conversion should do well as 99 % of the driving will be on the paved roads and it being a show truck . It will be trailered every where we go unless it’s close .