toenden Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Hi all, My god trusty 110STW from 1989 has over the years gone a bit soft in the rear suspension, especially when loaded up for summer etc. It did not use to be like this so I am thinking that the Boge unit finally might have given up the ghost. This got me thinking of alternatives and if all STW's had the Boge unit? I seem ro remember that in the last part of the 90's it was no longer used? Alternative setups appriciated, I was thinking OME but there may be better solutions out there (I guess that the rest of the suspension could use an upgrade/rebuild aswell 🙂) /mads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 I'm sure I saw somewhere you can get the boge unit re-built. I'll have a look, if you could rebuild - from what I've read in old posts the boge unit works very well. After a quick search looks like this chap got it rebuilt by ZF. RRC self levelling strut reconditioned by origianl manufacturer | Land Rover UK Forums (lrukforums.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 You can buy remanufacture units now: https://www.kingsleycars.co.uk/boge-self-leveling-unit/ Just, whem, sit down before opening link. Later 110s had no leveller, just stiffer/different springs, the parts book/good parts website will tell you which. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 My LR110CSW was originally rebuilt with the self-leveller, but it failed, so I ended up with the later "heavy-duty" rear springs. That rebuilt price is scary, one for the concours types, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toenden Posted June 30, 2023 Author Share Posted June 30, 2023 Thanks both! -I did not know the Boge unit was available as a remanufactured item... but the price is a bit steep 🥶 The unit (when working) does its job perfect but I think it will be binned at those prices... I will dig into partsbook for the never type springs. /mads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toenden Posted June 30, 2023 Author Share Posted June 30, 2023 18 minutes ago, jeremy996 said: My LR110CSW was originally rebuilt with the self-leveller, but it failed, so I ended up with the later "heavy-duty" rear springs. That rebuilt price is scary, one for the concours types, I guess. Hi Jeremy, Was the ride OK with the stiffer springs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 I went with hard top springs and cut the protrusion off the A frame. Works well and the ride is perfectly acceptable. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 ...ish! It was better with a load on and a little hard when running light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmmv Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 I think the Puma 110 csw springs may be a bit more comfortable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Wonder if you could stick a P38 air spring in place of the Boge unit to give you an extra lift? Wouldn't be very hard to do, probably.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 1 hour ago, FridgeFreezer said: Wonder if you could stick a P38 air spring in place of the Boge unit to give you an extra lift? Wouldn't be very hard to do, probably.... I had planned on fitting an air bag there but have the air bag helpers in the rear coils now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 2 hours ago, fmmv said: I think the Puma 110 csw springs may be a bit more comfortable. My 1996 CSW was very saggy and I replaced the Boge with later springs. That was about five or six years ago and it's been great since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 That is a big price difference, Eu900 with ZF and £1900+ with Kingsley. I have no idea if the unit on my RRC is working, but as it already has police spec rear coils, which give it a nicer poise when stationary (about the same as an early RRS) and I like their ride, I’ll be keeping those and the Boge will continue to be redundant anyway. I can see the benefits of the Boge, but I prefer a slightly taught feel (not harsh with PU bushes and hard dampers) and the slight rake that later 110s had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 An early 110SW with a working Boge strut is the best ride you’ll get out of a defender - soft and compliant but able to stiffen up when loaded. Later models use progressive springs which are okay but they're a bit of a compromise in my opinion. My plan was (is?) to use the earlier soft springs but with air bags inside to pump up if loaded or towing, to basically replace the function of the strut. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toenden Posted June 30, 2023 Author Share Posted June 30, 2023 Hi all, The airbag is a great idea! But a bit to much engineering for the moment. I agere, that the ride unloaded is great and I have always felt that the Boge was a Nice way of having the Best of both worlds BUT the price is a bit overwhelming 🙂 I will dig into the alternatives. Can anybody confirm that the puma era springs is a bit les harsh? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 For reference, every Land Rover spring and its rate: http://www.red90.ca/rovers/springinfo.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmmv Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 I have the td5 era rear springs, they are ok but I think a bit hard till you get a wee bit of weight on, eg trailer nose weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 The cheap and easy way is to first test what you have, and then if defective replace with a second hand unit and hope it's OK. Test involves a tape measure and some weight - measure ride height empty, measure it with a decent amount of weight in it, drive it a bit, re-measure and it should have come up. I forget what the weight should be, couple of hundred kilos maybe? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 I have been using the later progressive springs in my early hardtop for about 5 years and they do ride better, a lot better when empty but that isn't very often, so adding the air bags for when it is loaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toenden Posted July 3, 2023 Author Share Posted July 3, 2023 On 7/1/2023 at 11:03 AM, Bowie69 said: Test involves a tape measure and some weight - measure ride height empty, measure it with a decent amount of weight in it, drive it a bit, re-measure and it should have come up. I forget what the weight should be, couple of hundred kilos maybe? Hi Bowie, I did this (and have done it before) "the farmer way" yesterday with some 200 kilo of beehives with Honey in the back 🙂 It did not raise at all, which have lead me to the conclusion that it is malfunctioning. I do have a secondhand unit kicking about but it is of unknown origin and takes some effort to install so I was just trying some lateral thinking for alternatives and opinions of the alternatives which I have got! -great 🙂 The spring table is perfect for comparing, thankyou for sharing/pointing in that direction @FridgeFreezer. /mads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 Yup, sounds like it is dead, at least you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 Given how old these units must all be by now I'd be quite impressed if any are still working. I'd also be really curious to see what's inside and if they're DIY-fixable given the price of new ones, I can't believe it's rocket surgery although I could believe there's some special goop or a large spring in there that will catch you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 The Boge units were a fantastic bit of Engineering. I swapped out a worn out one on my first 110 - and regretted it ever after. I never found springs which did nearly as good a job. On my next 110 (a Td5 Doublecab) I often wished it had the Boge unit instead of the spine jarring HD Rear springs. I would bet, if you took it to one of the many Hydraulic Specialists who rebuild cylinders - they would be able to repair it. The problem is most likely to be piston or valve seals wearing & becoming leaky. A few specialists we use at work - Hopespare, PPK, Steerforth, Oddy Hydraulics, Custom Hose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 20 minutes ago, simonr said: I would bet, if you took it to one of the many Hydraulic Specialists who rebuild cylinders - they would be able to repair it. Good call - I'd add HP Hydraulics in Fareham to that list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigi_H Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 I got 2 old ones and will try to repair by myself soon. The original springs with self leveling are a lot softer and follow the old racing rule "As soft as possible, as hart as necessary " Who has pics oft a dismantled unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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