simonpelly Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Hi Folks, Must confess, this had not been on my radar when driving in France earlier this year. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66449514 Wondering which rating a 1997 Defender 300Tdi would be? Thoughts? Anyone got any experience with this? Thanks, Simon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 I went though this in Berlin. My 2003 Td5 was not listed - so I had to get it tested & received a Red sticker (meaning I could not enter central Berlin). In Paris it's fairly similar - the colour of your sticker determines where you can go. I suspect you'll get a Grey sticker (equivalent of Red in Berlin) The stickers are cheap in France https://www.certificat-air.gouv.fr/ For Berlin it ended up being expensive as I needed an emissions test - but still not terrible. I didn't find it made any difference to where I wanted to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Euro 2 standard is the minimum for the French stickers, and even then you’ll only get a class 5 which is pretty much banned anywhere there is an emissions zone. Sadly it means much routing faff when trying to get through parts of France in an older vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 Our 1996 300TDi is Euro1 and we use an app called Green-zones. The vehicle is defined in the app which then shows restrictions or not for each zone The map shows live restrictions and thus areas to avoid. There aren’t many in France and they tend to be small areas in the centre of urban areas. Some zones are dynamic, driven by conditions and so can change daily. It was easy enough to tour around recently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 @Peaklander That's awesome! It's confusing enough just driving around the UK with the different LEZ's operating at different times - it could almost have been designed to be confusing & generate income in fines! (Note that I agree with the intent of it - I just wish there was a standard way of expressing the info. You can't just stop next to the sign to read it & often by the time you're at the sign, there's no option but proceed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 14 hours ago, simonpelly said: Anyone got any experience with this? Yep! Basically you pay a whole £4.60 for a sticker, put it in your windscreen and that's it forever. Then you're not allowed to drive through areas that forbid your sticker. We got a sticker number 3, having asked about them about our vehicle and gotten a copy-paste of the unhelpful website in return so we just went with whatever the website said based on the forms you fill out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 I've just applied on-line for a sticker for the Grenadier, it comes back as a "2". The current cost, including postage is £4.61, so I don't think the French are profiteering! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill B Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 Clown world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 3 hours ago, jeremy996 said: The current cost, including postage is £4.61, so I don't think the French are profiteering! Yeah it's the same price for all cars no matter the emissions, it's just a quick way of the Gendarmes checking if you're allowed to be where you're driving - I guess ANPR + looking it up in a database is either too advanced for them or too invasive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 If you don’t intend to drive into a zone, you don’t need to buy and display a sticker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 2 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said: Yeah it's the same price for all cars no matter the emissions, it's just a quick way of the Gendarmes checking if you're allowed to be where you're driving - I guess ANPR + looking it up in a database is either too advanced for them or too invasive. "Too invasive" - the French take personal data very seriously and are currently having a go at FaceBook and Google. The UK is rather lax in comparison, but then we do not have ID cards and no compulsion to carry personal ID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebus Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 6 hours ago, Phill B said: Clown world Couldn't agree more, I frequently get on ferries billowing black smoke all the way across the channel, with no complaints from any government either side when 200 lorries roll off that ferry every 2 hours, its all bollox 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 15 minutes ago, stevebus said: Couldn't agree more, I frequently get on ferries billowing black smoke all the way across the channel, with no complaints from any government either side when 200 lorries roll off that ferry every 2 hours, its all bollox What colour sticker do the airliners landing in Paris have? Greenwash does not put out wild fires........ Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebus Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 I'll tell you something, whilst I understand covid was a major catastrophe, I had mates of mine running tractor units into Brussels, Paris and other highly protected emissions areas throughout Europe on euro 4s, apparently banned in Europe now to collect medical supplies for this country, 10 a day plus wagons, if the cargo is important enough it'll go on the back of an old Fordson major, and sorry to go on, hypocrisy to its highest order, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 The French Crit'Air system has little to do with CO2 greenwashing and more to do with NOx and particulates. Think of it as a less invasive ULEZ scheme and it seems almost proportional. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebus Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 Sorry Jeremy, whilst I appreciate you still have your opinion, it's still bollox, ULEZ is a total liberty forced on 5 million people, how is it proportional, that France has the same policies just worded differently, sell your land rover mate and get a Tesla 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, stevebus said: sell your land rover He did..........and bought a Grenadier..............lol Regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebus Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 Maybe he can drive into town then, I can't, cos he's fortunate and I'm not, eh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 To answer the points in turn, I do not think the ULEZ is a proportional response either, but it was the one agreed by the Tories at the time, (and now they are back-pedalling as it is "unpopular": spineless bast**ds). As an asthmatic, I am bothered by particulate emissions and central London breaks local, national and international guidelines for atmospheric pollution. The French system is more targeted, their public transport is more integrated and it appears to me to be a better solution to the problem as defined by the laws as they stand. As @Stellaghost pointed out, I have sold two Land Rovers and bought a Grenadier; the Grenadier is Euro6 and exempt from the ULEZ requirements around the UK. A Tesla will not work for me as it cannot tow enough. The most useful thing anyone can do is disengage from consumerism and buy much less of higher quality and keep it for as long as possible. I'm hoping the Grenadier will be around for me for 20 years+. As I had the LR110 for 18 years and it was not new then, I do not see that as unreasonable. Save your anger for spineless politicians who fail to understand that their self interest should come last in their deliberations. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebus Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 Hello Jeremy, a serious apology is in order, I did bite to be honest and maybe shouldn't off, and certainly not at you. It does wind me up about all these emissions bit, and to be fair in this post now, I'm trying very hard not to start it all off again. Please exept the apology, hope the Grenadier lasts you the 20+ year's you lucky sod, all the best Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted August 14, 2023 Share Posted August 14, 2023 Thanks, @stevebus, there is much to get angry about; ULEZ is a nasty mixture of popularism, opportunism and being seen to do "something". (And now trying to do nothing as it is unpopular with people whom the sitting party think would vote for them). I'm not even certain that it will make a huge difference with NOx and particulates in the Capital; more guesswork than targeted, measured policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junglie Posted August 14, 2023 Share Posted August 14, 2023 The true irony about the ULEZ is that the most polluted area of London is...the tube. It's horrendous, but Chairman Kahn and his politburo would have us all crammed in there, regardless. The science suggests that extending the ULEZ to the outer London boroughs will have a negligible impact on air quality. But it'll raise a shedload of cash for Kahn's next vanity project. If we're going to do ULEZ for air quality reasons then do it like Edinburgh - if your vehicle doesn't comply you can't just pay and bring it in. You're not allowed to bring it in, full stop. I don't like it at all, but at least it's honest. Well, maybe... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted August 14, 2023 Share Posted August 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Junglie said: The true irony about the ULEZ is that the most polluted area of London is...the tube. It's horrendous, but Chairman Kahn and his politburo would have us all crammed in there, regardless. The science suggests that extending the ULEZ to the outer London boroughs will have a negligible impact on air quality. But it'll raise a shedload of cash for Kahn's next vanity project. If we're going to do ULEZ for air quality reasons then do it like Edinburgh - if your vehicle doesn't comply you can't just pay and bring it in. You're not allowed to bring it in, full stop. I don't like it at all, but at least it's honest. Well, maybe... Agree with most of this. The bigger problem with ULEZ is that it hits the poor hardest. I have relatives in the zone. Some of them have always scrimped and managed. They spent inheritance from my grandma on a car (diesel). The car will not be able to be in the zone without paying a daily charge. They cant afford the charge, they cant afford a compliant car. They need the car to get the family to various places of work. Public transport is inadequate. They cant afford to move out of the zone. Their whole lives are there. They cant live in it, they cant move out of it. ULEZ will turn chairman khans suburbs into a rich suburbia while he swans the empty streets in his chauffeur driven Range Rover. Well done chairman khan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 14, 2023 Share Posted August 14, 2023 Eeeeh it's all gone a bit Daily Mail in here hasn't it? Country's going to hell in a handcart, you couldn't make it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted August 14, 2023 Share Posted August 14, 2023 1 hour ago, FridgeFreezer said: Eeeeh it's all gone a bit Daily Mail in here hasn't it? Country's going to hell in a handcart, you couldn't make it up! If you live inside the m25 life isnt going to be great if you dont have much money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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