I've been reminded just why UK Mags are so ****

[white90]

Scrapiron are copying/idea ripping offsters

Mags were fine but there is only so many things they can write about

and it takes time whereas Forums are quick and easy to get a response on

haven't purchased one for a while now

[geoffbeaumont]

How many readers would be genuinely interested in how to fit portals/drive through water that comes above the wheels/making your own ignition system/altering a chassis to take a different engine or transmission? The list of what readers would not do is almost endless I would have thought.

I suspect that while the most active users on here tend to be those who are prepared to venture into the unknown (because they've got the most to talk about here), there are more users who prefer to play safe. They still seem to be interested in what others are up to, though.

The number of satisfied readers vastly outweighs the tiny few forumeers or a few select forums

At the end of the day, all the magazines are published by businesses, to make a profit. The same as any other business they'll balance what sells well with the cost of producing it. If lots of people continue to buy publications with more ads than articles, and nothing much of substance in the articles then that's what they'll print. I've no problem with that - I just don't buy them.

[MogLite]

I know you started this thread Nigel - but its not aimed at you - got it

This magazine thing seems to be a recurring issue - along with "Which Welder?", Scorpion Racing, winch classes etc which this and other forums seem to cover again and again.

The mags try and cover all bases. Thats why they have front covers showing their features, and an index telling you exactly what is in the magazine.

I've spent thousands of hours checking out magazines in newsagents, some I buy, some I put back.

If you think the articles are worth you £3-£4 - complete the purchase, if not walk away.

If you subscribe and are un-happy - cancel.

Its pretty easy really - I've been buying magazines for years

Take this forum as a parallel example - I like it, I contribute, I read, I post. All is well.

But do I complain about all the Series content, because I'm not interested in Series ? Do I complain about the bad advice telling newbies to go out and buy a kinetic rope? No I take the rough with the smooth, filter out what I need and am happy with my lot - same with magazines.

If there was a magazine called "4x4 Modification" people would buy it, but then people would complain that they can't relate to the features beacuse they don't have a divorced Atlas transfer box, or don't see the need to rebuild a brand new £1000 winch, when what they want is to be able to bolt on some side steps so Granny can get in the back.

I'll be on the swings - I'll come over and see you on the roundabouts later

[SteveG]

I know you started this thread Nigel - but its not aimed at you - got it

Why not, Nigel posts on this magazine bashing theme every six months or so and still hasn't learnt not to buy them!

btw, very good points MogLite

Steve

[BigSi110]

If I was literate enough to be able to write and spell properly, plus put a convincing point of view across, then Moglite's and Otchie's answers are what I'd have written.

Each to their own. Like the TV, if you don't like what's on one channel then switch over. If you don't like what's on the box, switch the thing off and do something else.

For each article I read that I like, there's always another I'll hate, but I pay's my money anyway and hope the next page will be worth it overall.

The Classifieds are always good. If for nothing else other than to play the 'What would you buy on this page' game with my 5 year-old son. Always amusing!

[Happyoldgit]

I know you started this thread Nigel - but its not aimed at you - got it

This magazine thing seems to be a recurring issue - along with "Which Welder?", Scorpion Racing, winch classes etc which this and other forums seem to cover again and again.

The mags try and cover all bases. Thats why they have front covers showing their features, and an index telling you exactly what is in the magazine.

I've spent thousands of hours checking out magazines in newsagents, some I buy, some I put back.

If you think the articles are worth you £3-£4 - complete the purchase, if not walk away.

If you subscribe and are un-happy - cancel.

Its pretty easy really - I've been buying magazines for years

Take this forum as a parallel example - I like it, I contribute, I read, I post. All is well.

But do I complain about all the Series content, because I'm not interested in Series ? Do I complain about the bad advice telling newbies to go out and buy a kinetic rope? No I take the rough with the smooth, filter out what I need and am happy with my lot - same with magazines.

If there was a magazine called "4x4 Modification" people would buy it, but then people would complain that they can't relate to the features beacuse they don't have a divorced Atlas transfer box, or don't see the need to rebuild a brand new £1000 winch, when what they want is to be able to bolt on some side steps so Granny can get in the back.

I'll be on the swings - I'll come over and see you on the roundabouts later

^^ Spot on ^^

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Nige

[Guest diesel_jim]

The Classifieds are always good. If for nothing else other than to play the 'What would you buy on this page' game with my 5 year-old son. Always amusing!

heh heh.... i play that game... but with myself!

[FridgeFreezer]

OK, Moglite et al make good points - no-one's making us buy the mags, and I don't buy them for that very reason.

However, to turn this round a bit - given how many members this forum and others have, there is clearly a demand for something that does not currently exist and that goes a step or three further than the current crop of comics. Soooo why the bally flip won't someone print one?

[The Yak]

The only one I now get on sub is http://www.overlandjournal.com/ although it is USA based and hence has Jeeps etc as well, they do have some good articles, the production quality is very good and it is refreshingly free from hundreds of pages of adverts.

Neil

Neil...this is a magazine that I was not aware of and seems to be right up my street!

I have subscribed and ordered the back numbers and look forward to a good read on these dark winter nights.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention!

Another mag I enjoy and subscribe to is 4x4Australia.

Cheers,

Bob.

[honitonhobbit]

OK, Moglite et al make good points - no-one's making us buy the mags, and I don't buy them for that very reason.

However, to turn this round a bit - given how many members this forum and others have, there is clearly a demand for something that does not currently exist and that goes a step or three further than the current crop of comics. Soooo why the bally flip won't someone print one?

But John that's simply not the case. A basic; profit making mag costs about 300k to set up and about 200k to run a year - and that is basic.

Okay so Difflock has a fairly chunky membership (and is producing it's own on line mag soon) so does LRA, LR4x4. ORRP, etc but it's not enough to justify and to be honest all the aforementioned forums are different - too many tastes to cater for

Andy has hit the nail on the head; like it or lump it

I get my pleasure out of Petersons, 4wheel drive, camper tailer australia, military machines int, practical classics, bike, classic bike, old glory, vintage tractor, canoe etc. Hell there is a world out there that is not Green Oval and to be honest I do get somewhat sick of the constant typos, technical mistakes, boltonbullsh*t, product glorification, blah blah but I am still capable fo free thinking.

[Guest diesel_jim]

I get my pleasure out of Petersons, 4wheel drive, camper tailer australia, military machines int, practical classics, bike, classic bike, old glory, vintage tractor, canoe etc. Hell there is a world out there that is not Green Oval and to be honest I do get somewhat sick of the constant typos, technical mistakes, boltonbullsh*t, product glorification, blah blah but I am still capable fo free thinking.

you never mentioned Readers *******, big & ********* and huge***....

[western]

Neil...this is a magazine that I was not aware of and seems to be right up my street!

I have subscribed and ordered the back numbers and look forward to a good read on these dark winter nights.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention!

Another mag I enjoy and subscribe to is 4x4Australia.

Cheers,

Bob.

you haven't got time to read, get the house built

[honitonhobbit]

Jim, this is a family forum!

[FridgeFreezer]

Dave - I'm not talking green oval, just off-roading in general. Imagine Practical Performance Car but with more mud.

[Guest otchie1]

Okay so Difflock has a fairly chunky membership (and is producing it's own on line mag soon) so does LRA, LR4x4. ORRP,

Simple math is often the most dangerous. It's my experience that there is an awful lot of overlap of membership between online forums, often with differing user names and even different personalities.

I'd also be very surprised if some people don't have several accounts on each forum as that is very common elsewhere.

You'd be better off organising ClubLR4x4.com as a physical entity with paid subscription, discounted insurance etc etc and then seeig how many bodies you've got to judge your market.

We could even organise frowning contests with the Ramblers' Association on alternate Wednesdays.

[JSG]

I find that I get bored with the mags after a while - they do all seem the same sometimes.

The cure is to ignore them for a few months and then they seem fresher again.

LRO should improve now Millsy is writing for them - a real enthusiast writing articles....

I reckon LRO will improve in the new year. B)

[BigSi110]

You sold your soul to LRO and gonna become a pin-up celeb?

Agree with you that Mills is doing OK. I'd never heard of him before, but he seems a good chap and very enthusiastic.

[JSG]

Agree with you that Mills is doing OK. I'd never heard of him before, but he seems a good chap and very enthusiastic.

He's a bit of a walking encyclopedia on Landrovers (esp Series trucks) who lives and breathes them. I've known him for a few years now and he is always ripping them apart, driving them, breaking them and then starting the cycle again.

At least he is writing articles with some knowledge behind him.

Still too many adverts though.

[FridgeFreezer]

I'm not massively bothered by adverts - it's "advertorials" and "reviewverts" that p*ss me off. They never actually tell the truth about a product, or meaningfully compare products - just print some non-committal waffle about all of them that won't upset anyone but leaves you none the wiser about which product is actually any good. Even more annoying is when they print the drivel from the back of the packet and pass it off as "product news", especially when it's for some total snake oil a*se gravy like fuel-line magnets etc.

[honitonhobbit]

John, you are generalising again so a quick smack on the wrist. Okay so some of the mags just print what the marketing man says about the product (actually most do), some attempt to modify the marketspeak, get it wrong because they know next to nothing. Some speak the truth, then they can never get another product from anyone else because they were less than positive.

As to head to head tests, you want to try it, it's a nightmare, you can't turn round to people who essentially pay the bulk of the costs of the mag with adverts and say 'this is cr*p, but Joe Blogg's stuff is the dog's b*ll*x'. It's bloody hard work telling the truth about a product in a negative way but making it appear positive to the retailer/manufacturer but stil warning Joe Public about any issues. Most of the smaller mags have to 'blag' the product in the first place, so add that to the mix. Then you have get your tests right, both technically and on a level playing field. This is why so many mags get it almost right.

On top of that there are the oddballs. These are the readers that actually do know more than all the mag staff put together and are upset that that is the case.

Very few 4x4mag staff come from a true 4x4 background, it might be bikes, cars or even needlepoint. They have arrived in 4x4 via publishing. The icckle minority have approached it through a genuine love or deep knowledge of things 4x4.

Throw in budgets, low paid staff, annoyed contributors, big advertisers with carp products blah blah and yet you want it to be perfect for you!

[The Yak]

All this chat got me looking a bit closer at what we get for our money.....

The January LRW mag arrived in the post today and true to form the very first article is about a tricked up 90. There is the usual diligent and detailed mentions of the parts suppliers/advertisers/sponsors.

Sadly they could not put as much diligence into describing the basic details of the 90...

It is a TD5. It says so on the wing. The article describes it as a Tdi.

Read on and there is a photo of the engine bay showing a TD5 but the caption again describes it as a Tdi.

Hmmmmm..........

Incidentally.........I have bought, read and still have EVERY copy of LRO, LRW, LRM, LRE and an assortment of others (yes, it's sad isn't it!). But I still subscribe to all and usually find something of worthwhile interest in them.

However, as with other people, I am also looking at them more critically now and for the first time in many years putting doubt on renewing certain subscriptions. Shame really.........

Bob.

Bob.

[Guest diesel_jim]

you never mentioned Readers *******, big & ********* and huge***....

so i can't mention *****, ***s and ***** (blanked out my myself!) but people can say that they're "pi$$ed off", "'this is cr*p, the dog's b*ll*x'"

hmmm.....

[Icedmunkie]

He's a bit of a walking encyclopedia on Landrovers (esp Series trucks) who lives and breathes them. I've known him for a few years now and he is always ripping them apart, driving them, breaking them and then starting the cycle again.

At least he is writing articles with some knowledge behind him.

Still too many adverts though.

I agree with John there... Kev has been working and driving landrovers from a young age, He has some good ideas, and the same with John I have known Kev for years and he has ripped apart my landy more times than I can imagine.. even working on them when we were meant to be at work...

I have met some of the other LRO writers and they seem very enthusatic about there land rovers, but like it has been said before... the magazines are a business and have to cater for the masses to make money at the end of the day..

I personaly would like to see more articles about series trucks as thats what I love and enjoy.. I offroad my series and use it everyday, but feel there could be more content on how to make them more practicle and subtle mods to make them better offroad without going over the top.

I don't buy bolt on but then again I don't have the space/knowledge/time to make major mods but it be nice to know what you could do..

I think kev will do an excellent job and will be a very good asset to LRO

[NRS91]

I agree with John there... Kev has been working and driving landrovers from a young age, He has some good ideas, and the same with John I have known Kev for years and he has ripped apart my landy more times than I can imagine.. even working on them when we were meant to be at work...

I have met some of the other LRO writers and they seem very enthusatic about there land rovers, but like it has been said before... the magazines are a business and have to cater for the masses to make money at the end of the day..

I personaly would like to see more articles about series trucks as thats what I love and enjoy.. I offroad my series and use it everyday, but feel there could be more content on how to make them more practicle and subtle mods to make them better offroad without going over the top.

I don't buy bolt on but then again I don't have the space/knowledge/time to make major mods but it be nice to know what you could do..

I think kev will do an excellent job and will be a very good asset to LRO

LRO did this a while back using other rover and classic car bits n bobs...

i think the reason youre all complaining is because like most things in this world our magazines are becoming more commercialised when we prefered our mags with the oily bits left in