Paul64 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I am no expert when it comes to vehicle recovery and was having a look for some film clips on the subject. I came across the following. This snatch recovery using a joined kinetic rope seems quite aggressive. Is it OK to snatch in this way without risk of a shackle flying through your windscreen? Cheers, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG DAN T Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 NO!! Never join a kinetic to a strop/rope/other kinetic with a shackle as if it fails it can be flung with huge force and possibly kill someone. It is even a bit dodgy to join a kinetic to another strop/rope/other kinetic by looping as this is still a potential fail point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul64 Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 NO!! Never join a kinetic to a strop/rope/other kinetic with a shackle as if it fails it can be flung with huge force and possibly kill someone. It is even a bit dodgy to join a kinetic to another strop/rope/other kinetic by looping as this is still a potential fail point. Thanks Dan. So if the fella in the film was recovering with a single non joined rope would taking up the slack at that speed be OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 NO!! Never join a kinetic to a strop/rope/other kinetic with a shackle as if it fails it can be flung with huge force and possibly kill someone. It is even a bit dodgy to join a kinetic to another strop/rope/other kinetic by looping as this is still a potential fail point. ^^^^^^^ Wot he said! The forces exerted by kinetic ropes are enormous. You have to be 100% sure that everything is in tip-top condition, especially recovery points. Kinetics have thier use, but joining two together is an absolute NO-NO. Unfortunately many peolpe get the kit without the faintest idea how to use it. This is where clubs and marshals come in handy. If I saw somebody doing this at one of our playdays I would be straight in there explaining what was wrong with the recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Thanks Dan. So if the fella in the film was recovering with a single non joined rope would taking up the slack at that speed be OK? Providing the recovery points are up to the job then the idea is to get some stretch on the rope so that the stuck vehicle gets twanged out if ya see what I mean The only way to do this is to take a run up. The textbook recovery would show the rope laid out on the ground in a zigzag and not crossed over itself anywhere. LASHING EYES ARE NOT SUITABLE RECOVERY POINTS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Given the choice I'd use the winch over kinetic recovery everytime, much safer and much more controlled. All above is good advice re kinetic recoveries, however I'm not sure I'd call that recovery agressive though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Joining kinetics to anything is generally not good, joining with a shackle is double stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul64 Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 Given the choice I'd use the winch over kinetic recovery everytime, much safer and much more controlled.All above is good advice re kinetic recoveries, however I'm not sure I'd call that recovery agressive though. My inexperience that makes me think it looks aggressive I suppose, as only used to car towing with an ordinary rope. It just looks pretty damn dangerous snatching like that with a massive elastic band! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 One has to wonder what they joined the rope to the Discovery with too. I assume it was the standard screw in recovery eye - which I would not use to snatch recover with! I have seen the result of a towball coming loose when attached to a kinetic rope. It was not pretty and literally destroyed the wing of a Landrover. If it had hit a person I am in little doubt that it could have been fatal - or very nasty at best. Never take up the slack in a "dead" rope at speed. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 It just looks pretty damn dangerous snatching like that with a massive elastic band! It is. The forces involved can be enournous. Which is why you have to be 100% sure that all the attachament points are up to the job and not do silly things like joining ropes/strops with shackles. Obviously the more agressive you are the greater the risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Also despite the poster's defence of using reverse gear to recover because "sometimes it's lower", I've been told reverse gear is often weaker than the rest due to having an extra gear in the train to reverse rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Also despite the poster's defence of using reverse gear to recover because "sometimes it's lower", I've been told reverse gear is often weaker than the rest due to having an extra gear in the train to reverse rotation. I guess from the point of view of a KERR recovery there's also less truck between you and any flying bits of tackle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Good GOD Having watched it just about everything wrong NEVER EVER join 2 KERRs with a shckle Look at the view out of the 2Windscreen" that straight rope = its aiming for you Recovery points - doubtfull they are good enough - there a real "Muppetry" air around this event NEVER do recovery in reverse - wekaest gear and you have little sterring or visibility FFS Winching was a nightmare too - poor practise All in all just remember this video and remember to do NOTHING as they did - accident waiting to happen Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul64 Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 I am relieved it is not just me that views this as dangerous. I would have thought if you know you are going in for a drive like this you would have a nice big fat set of low inflated muddies on? If you do choose a kinetic rope, what would be the best recovery point to use? Having never winched a single thing in my life what was he doing wrong in the video when using his? Cheers, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 as the other above have said never join a KERR to another rope with a shackle alwats pass the other rope through the Kerr eye & then attach the other rope to the stuck vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Also despite the poster's defence of using reverse gear to recover because "sometimes it's lower", I've been told reverse gear is often weaker than the rest due to having an extra gear in the train to reverse rotation. Sometimes it might be but usually it isn't! Reverse is usually somewhere between 1st and 2nd in ratio. Not sure about reverse being weaker - its true of older LT77 gearboxes I think but not sure about newer ones or something completely different like the D3 gearbox. Not a bunch of people I would choose to go anywhere with, that's for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 The correct driving speed for a kinetic recovery is walking pace. These two in the film are clowns, ignorance masquerading as knowledge ! Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nas90 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Not sure where my Kerr rope is, it certainly is not in my truck Best bet is to get the deck chairs out, have a brew and wait for me to pull you out with the Milemarker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul64 Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 Has anybody tried using a high lift for recovery or is that even more dangerous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WALFY Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 When I started green laning all I had was a hi lift, adjustable chain and a couple of strops. Works well but nearly as slow as a mile marker winch :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul64 Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 When I started green laning all I had was a hi lift, adjustable chain and a couple of strops. Works well but nearly as slow as a mile marker winch :D What do you use now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Has anybody tried using a high lift for recovery or is that even more dangerous? using a hi-lift jack & adjustable chains is very slow & extremely hard work, it's all manual power, as for safe it's as safe as any other method provided the users know what thier doing & how to do it. have a read here use the 'learn with david' link in the left column & then the 'using a hi-lift' in the index Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 the KERR bit aside i would have thought the recovery points would have been alright, the D3 has a large single eye in the middle at the front designed for recovering off and the td5 is using the tow bar attachments isint he? both upto the task, as long as the rope is attached to them properly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Isn't the recovery eye on the Disco for towing? I wouldn't think it was rated for snatch recovery. Having been at the end of a flying Kinetic rope/shackle not a thing I'd want to repeat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WALFY Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 What do you use now? Superwinch G10 on the front and a Husky 8 on the rear. Not that I've used the rear that much. More of an insurance policy. Then again I don't get out much nowadays. To busy at work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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