Mud Terrain tyres on ice

[Landyandy]

I have been running 235 wide BFG mud terrain tyres and have been impressed with the off and on road performance through the spring and summer.

Last winter I was running BFG Track Edge which I think are a more all terrain tyre and they seemed ok on icy roads.

Does anyone have an opinion on how the 'mud terrain' tyres perform on icy roads. My thoughts would be that maybe the 'all terrain' tyres would handle the ice better.

What do you think?

Andy. B)

[GBMUD]

The only tyres that will work on ice are surely either spiked ones or ones with little octopus suckers on. I can't see the rubber pattern making enough difference to measure with ones bum - as the actress said to the bishop.

Chris

[northernchris]

I have been running 235 wide BFG mud terrain tyres and have been impressed with the off and on road performance through the spring and summer.

Last winter I was running BFG Track Edge which I think are a more all terrain tyre and they seemed ok on icy roads.

Does anyone have an opinion on how the 'mud terrain' tyres perform on icy roads. My thoughts would be that maybe the 'all terrain' tyres would handle the ice better.

What do you think?

Andy. B)

Narrow,closed block with studs is the way to go.

Chris

[dollythelw]

studs or semi studs, depends how much ice you are driving in?

[BogMonster]

I can say for sure that BFG ATs are much better than BFG MTs on icy surfaces, because I run both, though the MTs are still quite reasonable and better than many others. The ATs with electronic traction control and ABS on the Discovery, makes it a very sure footed vehicle on icy roads.

I have always found that dropping a few psi out of the tyres to spread the contact patch seems to improve grip quite noticably (which is at odds with conventional wisdom which suggests a narrow tyre is best!). Overheating the tyre isn't really a problem (I'm only talking about losing maybe 5psi anyway) as you shouldn't be speeding on ice anyway

There is certainly quite a difference between different tyres - for example BFGs are light years ahead of something like Avon Rangemasters or the old crossply Avon Ranger for example, the latter one is a truly, deeply scary tyre to use on ice. Some of our company vehicles used to have them fitted (and some still have Rangemasters) and they have given me a few brown trouser moments over the years! I don't really know "why" there is a difference but there certainly is, to the extent I tend to avoid driving the ones with Rangemasters on if the roads are icy. I think if there is a scientific explanation it is to do with the "siping" on the tyres (more gripping edges), the old design of tyres like the Avons means they don't have any sipes at all.

Never tried any of the proper winter tyres so I don't know how anything normal compares to them, nor have I driven on studs (contrary to the media image there isn't actually that much snow here!)

[GBMUD]

Are we talking sheets of frozen water here or compacted/part thawed and re-frozen snow?

Chris

[Landyandy]

More like untreated icy side roads.

[will_warne]

BFG muds are OK on ice but no Land Rover will be good, they're just too heavy. Once they start to slide there's only so much you can do. The condition I found they were terrible in was a thin layer of snow; very scarey at times. Once your into deep snow, though, they're absolutely superb.

[reads90]

BFG muds are OK on ice but no Land Rover will be good, they're just too heavy. Once they start to slide there's only so much you can do. The condition I found they were terrible in was a thin layer of snow; very scarey at times. Once your into deep snow, though, they're absolutely superb.

Blah all tyres are the same once you spin them fast enough to get the friction up and melt the snow

[Fatboy]

I suspect it is down to the compound. I've had Gislaved and Vredestein Snow tyres on various cars. There were excellent and felt like they had good grip. If you physically felt the tyres, the rubber still felt quite pliable. With the more regular mud tyres and road tyres, they seem to be much harder to the touch at low temps and I suspect this gives less grip on the smooth surface.

As I've said on one of the other threads, I've had really good results with BFG AT's on the Disco in deep snow and am currently running M/T's on my 90 with my missus running Grabber AT2's.

If I lived in the artic or a snow boud country where the roads are covered with snow or ice for long periods, I'd buy narrow snow tyres with studs. However, for occasional use, they are a waste of money. They wear down quite quicky on bare tar and if you have studs, they overheat and get ejected...

Studded tyres on tarmac roads for long term use is possibly more dangerous than mud tyres being used occasionally on snow.

The ABS brakes on my Discovery absolutely scared me witless as they just effectively switched the brakes off on all four wheels. On those types of surface, it can be beneficial to lock the brakes and build up a wall of snow in front to help stop.

[DaveSIIA]

After running a few lanes around the Buxton area last night, with ~4 inches of fresh snow, I felt that Trac Edges were better than BFG MT's. The MT's felt like they would spin or slide more readily whereas the Trac Edge have always been sure footed.

I run Trac Edges on my 300Tdi 110 and MT's on the Td5. However, the engine is out of the 300Tdi at the moment so I couldn't do a back to back test. Also didn't fancy freezing just to change over a set of rims on a hunch!

[Zed]

All those Europeans can’t be wrong............ (Maybe there would not be such a chaos on our roads after an inch of snow??????????????? )

If the temperatures drop below +7C you should change into winter tires. Normal winter tires - not off road tires are usually directional, they don’t loose their flexibility in low temperatures and still stick to the road better then the summer ones. More rubber on the road is better - maybe have 2 sets of tires?

The tread should be no smaller then 4mm and they can have cca. 0,2 bar more then summer ones

And something to keep in mind if you off to Europe for a break in your car - In Italy and Austria it is compulsory to have winter tires in certain areas, In France there are signs in the mountain regions. If you have an accident in Germany or Switzerland without winter tires you might have problems with the insurance as you will be getting a bigger portion of the blame. Off to Finland? - compulsory winter tires from certain time of the year. ..................

use of studs? In most of the Europe only allowed on special vehicles and mountain regions

(sorry landyandy - not a lot to do with your tyres but it made me feel much better about myself )

[bishbosh]

From my experiences in Montreal there are two factors to consider for snow tyres:

1. Compound - the softer the better, but be aware in mild climates they will wear very quickly and can over heat if driven out of season.

2. Sipes. The more the better. Ice is not slippery. It is the thin film of water on the surface that is. Sipes remove this water giving you a better chance of some grip.

As Will W said, 4x4' s are terrible on icy roads unless they are subarus or similar as the weight is a huge disadvantage - you may be able to pull away from the lights quicker than matey in his little astra, but you wont go around the corner or stop at the next lights quite so easily!

The Candians have a saying that goes something like " The first sign of winter is an SUV in a ditch!"

Your best bet for icy roads is a light front wheel drive car and gentle application of the controls. (Unless of course you have a Subaru). Our Golf with winter tyres was miles better than the Rangie on Trac edges on snowy roads.

[honitonhobbit]

All those Europeans can’t be wrong............ (Maybe there would not be such a chaos on our roads after an inch of snow??????????????? )

If the temperatures drop below +7C you should change into winter tires. Normal winter tires - not off road tires are usually directional, they don’t loose their flexibility in low temperatures and still stick to the road better then the summer ones. More rubber on the road is better - maybe have 2 sets of tires?

The tread should be no smaller then 4mm and they can have cca. 0,2 bar more then summer ones

And something to keep in mind if you off to Europe for a break in your car - In Italy and Austria it is compulsory to have winter tires in certain areas, In France there are signs in the mountain regions. If you have an accident in Germany or Switzerland without winter tires you might have problems with the insurance as you will be getting a bigger portion of the blame. Off to Finland? - compulsory winter tires from certain time of the year. ..................

use of studs? In most of the Europe only allowed on special vehicles and mountain regions

(sorry landyandy - not a lot to do with your tyres but it made me feel much better about myself )

He's right! A front wheel drive weasel is the best if you haven't got a scooby or a fiat Panda is the way to go

[Jen]

Hehehe... see? Scoobys are cool B)

[geoffbeaumont]

He's right! A front wheel drive weasel is the best if you haven't got a scooby or a fiat Panda is the way to go

Nah, you want rear wheel drive. Much more fun

Try an old volvo 240 for some real slidy fun in the snow (you won't stuck, either).

[BogMonster]

Suzuki SJ's are quite fun in the snow in 2WD too

[Fatboy]

He's right! A front wheel drive weasel is the best if you haven't got a scooby or a fiat Panda is the way to go

Hmm.. not convinced about front wheel drive

In the 70's we had an Avenger Estate and with a couple of kerbs in the boot and winter tyres, it went everywhere.

Saying that though... Until 1985, the Roads Supervisors for the Highland Region Roads Dept had Mini vans and they went eveywhere on closed roads due to snow.

[Ex Member]

I agree, front wheel drive is no better as long as you know how to drive.

Tires matter. Modern winter tires are leaps and bounds better than any other tire, period.

[FridgeFreezer]

I particularly like the G-Wagen in this clip:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7...&q=snow+driving

Not sure about the gangsta rap though

[Ex Member]

Fridge, Fridge, that's not snow

You could play ice hockey on our street the other day.

You know your in too deep when you need a pull DOWN the hill like my friend did after this picture.