Recovery Methods

[sotal]

This has probably been over a bit before, but I just wanted to check if what I am currently doing is dangerous and what I could do to make it better given what I have got.

I was given two items to aid recovery.

One is a rope in a loop, quite long and quite thick it is intended for towing lorries, the second item is a webbing type strap which is a single length with a "loop" at either end made by the material being folded back and I think sewed. The webbing on this is about 5inches wide and again was used with lorries.

I've never used the webbing strap but I have recovered a few mates using the rope loop. Most of the time it has been one particular LR which is a 109 2a, mine is a 88 2a. My normal method with this is to put the loop over my two ball, then over the 109's tow ball, drive slowly to get the tension up, then drive a bit harder, the 109 has never really been stuck (as in bogged down) The last time I recovered it, we drove over a sharp hill in the 88, and the 109 was following when we looked back he was balancing on the ridge, so we had to drag him back.

Is that method safe enough, I know both landrovers have well attached tow balls they are moth adjustable types mounted directly to the rear crossmember.

The only other thing I have had to rescue was one of them little Daihtsu things, that had no towbar or recovery points so we looped the rope round it's axle then with the free end we were left with we just dropped that over the tow bar.

Any tips to make things safer / anything we should invest in?

[Les Henson]

Pulling a motor out with a rope or whatever around the axle is not a good idea. If the front end is heavily bogged down, you could rip the axle off (which would be quite funny on a Daihatsu )

Les.

[GBMUD]

Interesting, in the absence of any better recovery point I often advise use of a strap around the axle. They are generally well attached and are the bit of the car that is actually stuck, making than the ideal recovery point. It has the added advantage of making the muppet who got there without proper recovery points get in the mud. Look out for brake pipes attached to the axle.

Chris

[ciderman]

Ive used the Antiroll bar eyes on the defender axles in the past for recovery points , worked fine ,It tended to pull the axle up and out of the mire without much effort ,

As G8 has said , the axles are the part of the car that is stuck .

[sotal]

So are the tow balls classed as an OK point to use?

[ciderman]

So are the tow balls classed as an OK point to use?

Well no not realy safe or ideal , Straps and ropes have a habbit of slipping off them , You could find a rated bow shackle to go around the neck of the tow ball and attach your strop/rope into the shackle . But bearing im mind tow balls are rated to 3.5t the force against them may be much greater than this .

Better of getting a Nato hitch .

[sotal]

I'm not too worried about the rope slipping off but I would be worried about the tow ball coming off, wouldn't fancy that flying about.

3.5t sounds worryingly low

[Diff]

I'm not too worried about the rope slipping off but I would be worried about the tow ball coming off, wouldn't fancy that flying about.

3.5t sounds worryingly low

Standard UK two bolt type Towballs are fine to use provided you are not in a deep hole and the rope is not pulling upwards. The reality is that it is hard for the rope to slip off a standard ball once the tension is on it.

Don't worry about the 3.5ton rating. A 'rated' item is its 'safe working load' all items 'rated' are by industry standard rated a MINIMUM of 3 times LESS than their breaking strain. The reality is that a uk type two bolt towball is immensely strong which is why it is accepted as an acceptable recovery point by clubs like the AWDC.

For more 'serious' off roading a 3.5 ton rated pin and jaw type hitch or nato hitch would be best.

Regards,

Diff

[sotal]

That puts my mind at rest, generally we have just taken the common sense route, we're lucky enough to have not got stuck so it generally ends up being us pulling someone else out, there was only one that we didn't think it was safe to recover, as we were at an organized event we just fetched a marshal who sorted it out with a couple of winches

[western]

try & get a copy of Recovery Techniques by Nick Cole, this one here & Winching in safety by Land Rover here

2 useful books full of great info.

[disco tony]

the price of thisbook matches the price of joining the AA, recovery for a year:o

[nickm]

I'm not too worried about the rope slipping off but I would be worried about the tow ball coming off, wouldn't fancy that flying about.

years ago at our club we had a tow ball come off as it had only been welded on wiv pigeon sh~*

came off hit my old man on the shoulder then hit some one in the face

we now make sure that towing points are bolted and advise to weld them aswell

if they have no towing points we tell them to put a strap around the axles before

going into the course

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

nickm has just beaten me to it answer wise....

I am not so worried about a towball being used, it is more what it is bolted to, and with what.

I have seen some horrors - and recently - a series 3 being snatch recovered with a RR a chain and the series had a towball mounted on the std bumper with cheap bolts, oddly enough when I screamed at them to stop and explain why I had the standard pikey "Its been OK for years this way" reply.

The recovery point has to be mounted to something solid, and with something far better than studding (which I spied on a Nato Hitch" - explaination for this was "Much easier to hacksaw the right lengths than bolts FFS) and I would suggest 8.8T as an absolute minimum and better 10.8 better still 12.9s which I what I use.

Dog them up super tight (often towballs / recovery points are loose ) and keep an eye on them

Also use a big thick spreader plate behind and if you can in fro9nt of the recovery unit (towbar Nato hoop etc) as this stops the unit deforming on slightly off centre pulls ,....and thus makes everything then loose....

HTH

Nige

[western]

the price of thisbook matches the price of joining the AA, recovery for a year:o

thats the one I posted a bit further up the page

[Kim Horsevad]

(...)

The recovery point has to be mounted to something solid, and with something far better than studding (which I spied on a Nato Hitch" - explaination for this was "Much easier to hacksaw the right lengths than bolts FFS) and I would suggest 8.8T as an absolute minimum and better 10.8 better still 12.9s which I what I use.

(...)

Why is it that everyone critizises use of studding? Is studding only avalilble in low strength materials in UK?....

Here in Denmark normal studding is 8.8 and can - without problems - be bougt as 10.9 or 12.9. One should - of course - remember that the nuts should be of the same tensile strenght. If the studding and the nuts used have an adequate tensile rating (10.9 or 12.9) I can see no problems with using such studding....

[Mark]

High tensile studding is fine, used with the correct rated nuts, as you point out. It is readily available from proper fastener suppliers...

Problem is that it is very easy to buy lengths of studding in DIY places that is not high tensile studding, and therefore not rated. Simonr will no doubt mention that he has seen some tested which came to an equivalent rating of a 1.1 rating....

Therefore, since once it is attached to a vehicle it is very difficult to tell the 12.9 from the 1.1 rated stuff until it is flying towards someone's head at stupid speeds I would be inclined to avoid it!

Mark

[Kim Horsevad]

(...)

Problem is that it is very easy to buy lengths of studding in DIY places that is not high tensile studding, and therefore not rated. Simonr will no doubt mention that he has seen some tested which came to an equivalent rating of a 1.1 rating....

(...)

Mark

Thanks for the explanation.... 1.1 rating is just plain crazy... It is significantly lower than aluminium!

I think there is some kind of H&S regulation i Denmark which forbids sale of bolts and nuts with lower than 8.8 rating.... If there is no corresponding regulation in your contry then I can see some of the problems arising from non-mechanical people trying to create a cheap solution on their cars...

[Escape]

Over here most studding seems to be 4.8. Needless to say I rarely use it on the landies...

[Les Henson]

I didn't know you can get tensile-rated studding. I thought it was all zinc coated plastic

Les.

[mmgemini]

My fastenings supplier keeps HT studding. He asks me which I want.

mike

[FridgeFreezer]

Just to add, towballs & pins are OK for normal recovery but if you're doing something that puts a lot of stress on such as snatching, winching or using a kinetic rope (KERR) I'd advise against using the towball, and where possible putting a webbing bridle between two recovery points to spread the load.

Drop/spacer plates are a couple of quid from Towsure and make good spreader plates. 8.8 bolts are also cheap, no excuse really - I wouldn't use studding, even if you know it's high tensile no-one else can tell by looking and you're likely to get the p*ss taken or told to go away and do it properly with rated bolts.

[bishbosh]

Totally agree - the issue with studding and bolts for that matter is one of identification. You can't to my knowledge identify HT studding without a tame metallurgist so if I was marshalling / scrutineering it would be out. Same for bolts with no identifying marks.

[q-rover]

Studding can't be that bad seeing as that is what's mostly used to hold

pipelines together offshore.

HMMM HP 30" gas pipeline., bit more of a worry than a towball.

[Mark]

To be fair, even when I do take my tame metallurgist to events, it is far less of a problem to have easily identifiable kit (she doesn't much like carrying out tensile strength tests whilst lying upside down in the mud) - same goes for shackles and straps.