WARNING

[russ3120]

right, just to inform you all

Toms farm has been served a writ, banning all 4x4 action, and anyone found on his farm offroading is likely to be arrested and have their vehicle crushed, the local council have finally taken action. against the cavalier action of some.

[Paul Humphreys]

I knew the gates were locked shut 2 weeks ago.

Paul

[landroversforever]

any reason why?

[Bowie69]

the cavalier action of some.

Probably that, I suspect, you never know though

[SiWhite]

Arrested for what?

Car crushed under what legislation?

[Nobbymogs]

well if that is the case you may as well damn Rhayder and flood the place as the amount of business that he makes in the area is crazy, if you go down to the village at night the amount of pubs and B&B's that are full of off roaders and bikers is mental

Nobby

[Paul Humphreys]

Arrested for what?

Car crushed under what legislation?

Arrested under the public order act, as it covers almost everything.

Crushed under section 59 of the RTA.

Paul

[Llanigraham]

Quote from today's Cambrian News:

" A Pantydwr couple accused of breaching prohibition notices which prevented them from hiring their land for use with off-road vehicles are to appear in Court this month.

Thomas Steven John Breeze and his wife Elizabeth of Cwmderw, Pantydwr near Rhayader are facing charges of of contravening a prohibition imposed by Powys County Council under the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974. The case at Llandrindod Magistrates Court was adjourned until 28th April for pre-trial review and mode of trial"

[pete3000]

well if that is the case you may as well damn Rhayder and flood the place as the amount of business that he makes in the area is crazy, if you go down to the village at night the amount of pubs and B&B's that are full of off roaders and bikers is mental

Nobby

Think they may have already dam.....ed Rhayader about 1896 3 or 4 times

The village itself is always busy, especially when the tourist places open up at the end of march. Not really sure if I can see if the possible impending action mentioned is a bad thing or not.

There is most likely a case for it to be run properly IAW H&S regs so as to keep the would be illegal off roaders off the national trust land and RUPP and ROWs which have temp closures in the area surrounding.

On the other hand does the site do its bit in attracting types who have no regard for anyone else, to the area, if it was closed would they look elsewhere, who knows.

There are plenty of other businesses in Rhayader who cater for tourists who visit in vast numbers, especially if the weather is good. A prime example is the number of road bikes at crossgates on a Sunday morning upwards of 100. Another tell tale is the police are out speed checking on the straights when the roads are busy as the A44 has a reputation.

[Llanigraham]

As a local, I doubt whether Rhayader will hardly notice the difference if that place is closed on not.

[disco_al]

It's been a long time coming - but expected none the less. at least they have acted now, rather than waiting for someone to be killed on the site.

TBH Rhayader is a tourist trap anyway, the closure of this place won't really affect the local trade much, don't forget that Strata Florida is only "round the corner and up a bit" from there.

Odds are there will be a hefty fine, and it will stay closed - i can't see him investing in the sort of things that a well run site needs, although if he did tidy it up, and get the proper stuff in place, it could be a good site.

[Llanigraham]

Agreed.

He will have to apply for FULL Planning permission for the place first, due to a change of use from agruicultural, and I suspect that a lot of his neighbours would object to that, and he would have to prove full insurance, H & S assessments, polution control etc before Powys CC even looked at an application

[Anderzander]

H&S legislation confers a lot of powers to the powers that be...

[headhunter]

Arrested under the public order act, as it covers almost everything.

Crushed under section 59 of the RTA.

Paul

They can arrest you for anything that takes their fancy these days, here's a copy of an email from a friend who is trying to have the arrest laws amended due to flagrant abuse and interpretation.

Subject: Excessive Powers of Arrest by Police - Petition to the Prime Minister

Dear Friends and Colleagues,

PLEASE READ ON, THIS IS NOT A ‘SPAM’ MESSAGE

Most people are unaware that in 2005 a fundamental change in police powers was quietly passed into law; a change that directly affects the life and liberty of you and every person in this country.

Section 110 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 was 'tacked onto' an otherwise acceptable piece of legislation and allows ANY police officer in England and Wales to arrest, (i.e. physically detain, handcuff and take to a police station for a DNA sample), ANY person, for ANY offence, no matter how trivial and whether or not a power of arrest previously existed for that offence. People can now be, (and have been), arrested and detained under Section 110 for not wearing a seatbelt; dropping litter; shouting in the presence of a police officer, climbing a tree, and building a snowman. Whereas police officers used to have to justify every arrest and be aware of whether or not a particular piece of legislation gave them power, they no longer have to do so. The power to deprive someone of their liberty should only be exercised in the most extreme circumstances, yet young and inexperienced police officers, (and soon, PCSO’s), are being trained that arrest and detention of a suspect is the first option in most encounters with the public. This sweeping power is being roundly abused on a daily basis in all of the 43 police forces in this country and puts you, your wife, husband or partner, your children and your friends at risk of arbitrary action by the police.

I spent 35 years of my adult life in the Police Service and am appalled by what it has become, largely as a result of powers such as those granted under Section 110.

Petitioning the Prime Minister will probably do little to stop the drift of this country to what has been described as a 'Stasi State' but I would nonetheless ask that you consider placing your signature on the petition - if only to see how the government responds to genuine concern from thoughtful citizens.

If you are sympathetic to this project, please forward this message and link to other friends, colleagues or bodies concerned about civil liberties.

The link to the petition is below:

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/PowersofArrest/

Thank you,

David Gilbertson QPM

(formerly Assistant Inspector of Constabulary

Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary,

Home Office(retired 2001))

[russ3120]

Further to my original post

Tom has pleaded not guilty in court and the council have given him a `park and picnic` permit apparently. this is open to a broad spectrum of interpritation. where you picnic you may have to drive in sorts of terrain. so it seems Toms farm has a so called stay of execution, which is good news

[Phill B]

Further to my original post

Tom has pleaded not guilty in court and the council have given him a `park and picnic` permit apparently. this is open to a broad spectrum of interpritation. where you picnic you may have to drive in sorts of terrain. so it seems Toms farm has a so called stay of execution, which is good news

Good!

I'm disgusted that people actually back the closing of this guys facility. What the hell happened to true freedom? Why can some do gooders backed by a pen pusher decide that a man cannot open his land to all to enjoy how they see fit, what the hell has it got to do with you?

Health and Safety? planning permission? pfft!

At least in places like Australia, Canada and the USA a man can go and drive his vehicle all over the countryside without fear of the Stasi arresting him, fining, imprisoning and destroying his property.

The UK has become as nasty little country full of nasty little people who don't know how to mind their own business.

No wonder people are leaving in droves

[Dave W]

Just how much freedom do you want, really ?

Do you want people to be free to break the law ?

With freedom comes an obligation to respect others. The owner of this site has shown no respect for his neighbours or, before he was banned from keeping them, his livestock. He has only been interested in making money and beyond that doesn't seem to care that he's been breaking the law and neither do those "customers" that use and abuse his land and cause his neighbours grief.

The countries you mention have one thing we don't and that is simply space. We live on an overcrowded island where it is impossible to get away from other people. There is a lack of tolerance in the UK and we as 4x4 owners are often on the receiving end of it but sites like this one, the way the land owner and his customers behave is unacceptable and reflects badly on 4x4 owners in general.

[GBMUD]

The owner of this site has shown no respect for his neighbours..... .....cause his neighbours grief.

I do not know how close his neighbours are but I cannot place any in my mind's eye. It is fair to say that Tommy's is pretty remote, I would be surprised to hear that any neighbour had really been inconvenienced - unless they are whining about increased road traffic.

For those who do not know it, Tommy's farm is Cwmderw at the centre of this map. The land surrounding the house is used and the nearest neighbour is miles some distance away.

Chris

[Nobbymogs]

Tom has neighbours but from memory i dnt think you can see many properties from his land although you do pass about 6 on the road up to his site, but i do think that people jump on the band wagon and slate and judge for no reason, ive said before ive been there many many times and have always enjoyed except when there has been some real fools up there but there again ive also been on some lanes and met fools driving up and down water ways im sure you get my drift.

tbh im quite pleased Tom has been given another life line i just hope he uses his head and does it properly, because from what ive read on other forums the people who do laneing are have enough trouble keeping them open now i just hope that if it does close these people dnt turn their off road driving skills to the lanes

Nobby

[mr.t]

I don't know if anyone has the full background to draw conclusions.

If they are trying to prosecute under HASAWA 1974, then it must be pretty heavy stuff.. ie fundamental safety breaches.

I know we will all have our own view on what is acceptable... I am a biker and new legislation is being raised and tackled week in week out.. The 'powers that be' cannot understand calculated risk taking..

Is it just that 'Tom' has not get the basic Risk Assessments and Method Statements for public access to the site?

I know that Stage Rallying have to produce these for every event each year, one of our events is 50yrs old this year and it still applies!

It is a sad situation in this country with the nanny state... but when it boils down to it the people who fight it do not have the support they should.

...most roll over, winge a bit, then accept it.

[lister1]

At least in places like Australia, Canada and the USA a man can go and drive his vehicle all over the countryside without fear of the Stasi arresting him, fining, imprisoning and destroying his property.

Thats fine but look how big those countries are in comparison to the uk.

while some people respect others and the countryside others dont and what little space we have left would be ruined. hence why they are closing BOATs. just my 2ps worth

[Nobbymogs]

I don't know if anyone has the full background to draw conclusions.

If they are trying to prosecute under HASAWA 1974, then it must be pretty heavy stuff.. ie fundamental safety breaches.

I know we will all have our own view on what is acceptable... I am a biker and new legislation is being raised and tackled week in week out.. The 'powers that be' cannot understand calculated risk taking..

Is it just that 'Tom' has not get the basic Risk Assessments and Method Statements for public access to the site?

I know that Stage Rallying have to produce these for every event each year, one of our events is 50yrs old this year and it still applies!

It is a sad situation in this country with the nanny state... but when it boils down to it the people who fight it do not have the support they should.

...most roll over, winge a bit, then accept it.

dnt know if you have ever been to Tommy's but its just basically 600 and odd acres of farm land you get there pay your money and do what ever you want, no facilities, may get a burger van, may have a thunder box on site and now and again running water

thats it

[mr.t]

Not been but I guessed that, we have similar places round here... not as big!

... it sounds absolutely fantastic.

I think the issue is that he charges and therefore becomes a business, the laws apply.... If someone gets hurt/killed without these rudimentary safety items in place then he would be in court explaining against long standing legislation...

...The law does not understand or want to know the we are taking these calculated risks... They are wanting to fit GPS tracking to my 190mph death trap!

(... oh and then they fit cheese wire safety barriers due to cost!) Grrrrr

[Nobbymogs]

as a bit of a example this is his house and yes he does actually live there

[Timmy511]

as a bit of a example this is his house and yes he does actually live there

Tom is a legend, the amount of things weve done there one motocross trips are unbeliveable.

I really hope he can continue in someway as its one of the only places ive been where you dont get any hassle, just pay your money and get on with it.