Now this will shock the lot of you!

[Unsworth]

First of all I was not sure where to post this topic.. It applies mainly to both Discovery and Defender owners.. My engine is a 200tdi Discovery unit in a Defender 90..

Well using my skills picked up from working in a garage, And also use of "Les Hensons's" usefull guide.. Me and my dad had everything stripped down within 40 minutes!.

Was all plain sailing aswell, The crank bolt cracked off using the traditional method despite being loctited in.. Even the spacer behind the bolt came off with a pry bar and gentle persuasion!!

But then I found all of this! (Photos attatched)

This is a genuine 92k milage 1994 engine from a Disco.. Used in an offroad only vehicle.. But it also fires up on the 2nd turn of the crank from cold without glow plugs!..

I have not had the land rover on the road with the 200tdi in.. But I was not letting it go to the MOT without a new belt due to the emissions test revving it before the governer.. I thought it would be a wise idea.. Yet my dad said to leave it.. He is nice and quiet now . Surprisingly the Idler and tensioner are like new so will re-use them!

Although I am sure the belt wouldnt have lasted long as mud was between the belt and gears.. And you can see the belt was also rubbing on the timing case cover.. But that goes to show how much abuse a 200tdi can take!.. Yet run like new!..

Got to get jetwasher out tomorrow and get all the S*** out!

[headhunter]

Is'nt there a lipped tensioner upgrade that helps keep the belt away from the timing cover!

A expert will be along no doubt to advise!

John

[seriebil.dk]

My advise would be to change the tensioner aswell, i would never re use that no matter its age. seen to many engine go because of this. this ones looks like its taken some mud to, which must have found its way inside the tensioner.

better remember that bottom plug next time you wading

Anders

[Unsworth]

My advise would be to change the tensioner aswell, i would never re use that no matter its age. seen to many engine go because of this. this ones looks like its taken some mud to, which must have found its way inside the tensioner.

better remember that bottom plug next time you wading

Anders

I would like to buy the full cambelt kit but I am now struggling to pay for my tax and MOT!.. Being an 18 year old going into another new full time college course has its downsides!!! I cannot take the blame for the state of the belt. The engine came out of an ex "Demon Wheelers" motor (They were used for offroad training).. I have some wading plugs somewhere!.. Can I leave these fitted all year round? (Obviously remove whilst servicing to let any oil out if there is any).

For now I will re-use the pulley and tensioner. I plan to fit a new belt every 2 years anyway so will give it a full kit next time.

Does anyone know what size the "wading" plug will be?. If I cant find mine I will just use a short bolt.. Im guessing its an M10? But my wading plugs had a 13mm head. I was just thinking of using a short M10 bolt with a fibre washer?

[GBMUD]

Does anyone know what size the "wading" plug will be?. If I cant find mine I will just use a short bolt.. Im guessing its an M10? But my wading plugs had a 13mm head. I was just thinking of using a short M10 bolt with a fibre washer?

The wading plug is a 1/4BSP taper IIRC. Commonly a bolt with a 13mm AF head would be M8, but not in this case.

IIRC it is then 300Tdi that has an aftermarket pulley upgrade as they seemed to have issues from day one.

There is no way on God's earth that I would refit the original idler/tensioner having seen the state of the rest of it. New ones are not dear and will save money and inconvenience when the belt breaks due to the original ones giving up. 'A stitch in time saves nine' springs to mind. You may be poor but this will save you money, time and hassle later.

Chris

[p38rr]

Change them. If you don`t you will regret it.

The reason the belt has been rubbing the cover is one of the idlers is bent and is directing the belt toward the cover. By fitting a new belt and tensioning it will force the belt further toward the cover and the chances of it lasting more than a few miles is remote!!!

The alternative is risking serious engine damage as a result of cam belt failure!! Your choice.

[Les Henson]

Replace the tensioner - the wheel turns about 5-times for every one rotation of the belt, so that's a lot of spinning in it's life. Either fit the wading plug and remove it once a week, or only fit it when you go off road. If engine oil gets on the belt - it'll weaken it and snap.

Les.

[HPLP]

You were very lucky with that!

Amazing how they keep going and going.

H

[nicks90]

aha - the infamous "water proof" timing belt cover...

having had one snap due to water ingress (even with the drain plug fitted!) i would make sure you seal the cover up really well using some liquid gasket and then a good smear of silicone sealant over the outside join. Oh and get a wading plug

[TheRecklessEngineer]

Yes, change them! Short term money saving tends to mean rather more expenditure in the long term.

[plasticbadger]

Change them as stated above^^^

But don't skimp, I had a Britpart idler pulley sieze after seeing water once only (the wading plug was in, but something else must have been leaking) - end result, cam belt snapped. It was a whole cam belt kit that had only done 500 miles since the original belt snapped

[Luwts]

Hi dude,

if you want to keep the crankcase waterproof and don't want to fit wading plugs for all the year round, you can fit a Festo angle breather attachment and route it to your snorkel along with your axle breather, gbox, tcase and bellhousing. ound a kit on ebay and its go evrything included.

Cu Luwts

[RedLineMike]

as everyone else has said, replace the idler & tensioner

when my timing belt broke it was waaaaay worse than that inside but it was the tensioner that had died, rebuilt it all with all new bits inc britpart tensioner (Doh) & it lasted 150 miles (muddytruckers 09) before the tensioner was dead again, replaced it with a gen one & all good

if i can find the pic of inside my timing cover i'll post them, was almost a timeline of events i did in 08 with tong clay on top

also id strongly advise replacing the front cover seal as thats where the water n carp gets in even you have the wading plug in

[Unsworth]

Hi all.. Well there is no way I can afford the kit yet or I would!..

The belt cost £9 (Dayco).. The tensioner and Idler spins like the brand new one fitted to my 19j (That was britpart)..

If I have to, I'll simply replace the cambelt again with new a tensioner and Idler in a couple weeks time. This way everything can be copper slipped and cleaned up.. And the job in theory will not take as long to do..

You lot may think this is a stupid idea.. But for the whole kit it works out a lot cheeper than going out an dbuying a New tensioner and Idler!.. Plus for what im concerned as a trianee mechanic.. Its extra experience

If the worse came to worse and that original belt snapped.. Would it have destoryed my engine?.. My dad said he read somewhere that when a belt goes on a 200 or 300tdi nothing is destoryed, bent or broken? this is due to extra clearance at the top of the piston from the valves?.. Personally I cannot see it but could be wrong?

[TheRecklessEngineer]

If the worse came to worse and that original belt snapped.. Would it have destoryed my engine?.. My dad said he read somewhere that when a belt goes on a 200 or 300tdi nothing is destoryed, bent or broken? this is due to extra clearance at the top of the piston from the valves?.. Personally I cannot see it but could be wrong?

There is quite a lot that will be destroyed bent and broken. The pistons will hit the valves, bending pushrods and possibly breaking rockers. Compared to other engines where this will destroy the pistons and valves also, the 200 and 300 TDi engines seem to be able to stand this kind of abuse - normally they survive with no ill effects.

Expect to replace pushrods and rockers if the timing belt snaps.

[Boothy]

Drill the front cover somewhere and fit a breather, the bigger the bettter 8mm or so is great, it will cost peanuts.

If you keep dunking a nice warm engine in cold gritty water (I know it was the previous owner) eventually any seal will fail because of the vacuum thats being created by instant cooling, and it will then draw the gitty water in through the seal and hey-presto you've got what you've got.

Say thanks for the fact you've caught it just in time, you lucky bu**er, and thanks for showing us all.

Good luck

[white90]

foolhardy!

I hope you get away with it

but a new belt on a carp pulley is a reciepe for disaster

you'll spend far more repairing it, getting the car home if it breaks.

[plasticbadger]

If the worse came to worse and that original belt snapped.. Would it have destoryed my engine?.. My dad said he read somewhere that when a belt goes on a 200 or 300tdi nothing is destoryed, bent or broken? this is due to extra clearance at the top of the piston from the valves?.. Personally I cannot see it but could be wrong?

I've had two go, as mentioned above. One snapped due to age at mid engine revs, mid load - result 7 bent pushrods. The second snapped due to the Britpart idler siezing at tick over - result, well nothing, just the belt, we had repaired by the side of the road less a new belt while waiting for Dlander Rich to come and pick us up! So, as far as your experience goes as long as you can afford the extra bits if it snaps, go for it!!!

[BigMac1]

Matt,

RCV @ Doncaster, part of Land Rover Parts Shop. I bought a kit for the 200tdi i put in my 90 for around £35. Don't skimp on it. You might be lucky and get away with it. But I'm just rebuilding a Citroen Dispatch that had a belt fitted 2K ago. Only the belt was replaced but since then the idler has failed. It snapped the cam in 4 places and cracked the cam cover. Its coming close in on £500 ish.

If it goes on the 200tdi you may well only be looking at £100 but its at least £60 more than the piece of mind that its right in the first place and the down time of doing it again. Just imagine the red face you'll have if your revving the nuts off it to get out a bomb hole and ot throws the belt off.

Mick.

[nicks90]

when the belt on my 300tdi snapped - high revs, heavy load in 3rd gear - all the pushrods were bent, snapped 3 rockers and fractured the rocker shaft.

do it once, do it properly.

[simonr]

Don't listen to these cynics - in fact, I'm siurprised you didn't put the old belt back on, it must have had a few miles left in it! You could wrap the outside with tape and replace the missing teeth with pencil erasers - then it would be good as new.

The belts used on Qualcast lawn mowers are very similar to Tdi's but a lot shorter IIRC. Next time, to save a few quid by joining two or three together with super-glue? I think you might also have to cut off every second tooth to make the pitch about the same - but as they say "close enough is good enough".

Si

[errol209]

Holy Zeus! Engineering

What someone needs to do is develop a metal belt and rubber idler system

Θα πάρω το παλτό μου*

* translated by google don't blame me etc. it's supposed to be Greek right? no i'm not going to explain

[mickeyw]

No-one has mentioned replacing the tensioner bearing. Is this not possible in the same way as with the fan belt tensioner?

I don't have a Tdi so I'm ready to be corrected on the above. Fan belt tensioner bearing (skf) can be just a few £ vs the whole assembly @45 for a cheapy one and very simple to swap over.

Just a thought from a penny pincher.

[ejparrott]

the tensioner assembly is mounted on a 3mm steel plate, and has a 1/2" square hole in the end for doing the tensioning before you tightent the bolt. Trouble is, if you dont have the perfectly square ended 1/2" extension bar i have for my socket, and use a normal one which has a 2mm chamfer on the end, you chew up the square and cant get the tension - so i'd always replace the whole thing every time.

[muddy]

Spoiling the ship for a hapeth of tar.

Will.

Ps. I was soo shocked i fell off my chair, MUD! Actualy IN the timing case? never!