Michele Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hello, it seems like I'll finally have the chance to build a truck to enter some local (Italian) winch challenges. Er I'm not going to build the truck exactly on my own, but I'll have some fabricators at hand, along with a true workshop, welders, plasma cutters, presses and all the fancy stuff I might need. Supervisor I'll be, sort of Vehicle look and specs will be dictated by my personal taste and the sponsor's needs, as he's in the LR parts business. The donor truck, parts and various bits I'll have are sitting in the workshop already, all I have to do is to carefully plan and try to get the best out of the pile of parts. Here we go: 1)Ex-MoD SIIA 88" chassis and body 2)300 Tdi (or Rover V8 but I'd like to stick to a 300 which I know), autobox or manual tranny and axles from a Discovery I. 300 Tdi might be bored, tweaked, tuned, VGTed, watercooled, anything thanks to the friendly neighbour who builds race cars/engines. 3)Eventual Salisbury rear axle off a 110 to be shaved (fr/rr axles will be improved with Rovertracks goodies, choice from Toy to Dana 60 conversion), fiddle brakes. 4)Any kind of leafspring (yeah we want it to be leafsprung for commercial reason plus I like to be different plus it will be fun to put the little Series against usual super 90s with dislocation cones, long arms and all the bling) 4)Interco TSLs 36" or more depending on the final WB (I'd stretch the 88" chassis to 95"...98"?100"?) 5)Custom made beadlock split rims (Hummer style). 5)Hydraulic winches front and rear (not sure about the autobox+hydro combo though) 6)Well a cage This is my spec list as it is straight off my head, I might forget something. Oh, the build should start around November/December so I'd better have a definitive "to do" list before that time. I know little about leafsprings tuning and setup, other than the usual extension of the front supports, the use of military shackes and long, flat springs front and rear. All the comments/opinions/suggestions will be appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Bob Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 (not sure about the autobox+hydro combo though) As far as I know, the pto for the hydro pump would run off the transfer box, so the autobox wouldn't be a problem... I'm not claiming to be right, but that's my understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 As far as I know, the pto for the hydro pump would run off the transfer box, so the autobox wouldn't be a problem... I'm not claiming to be right, but that's my understanding. A PTO adapter on the back of the transfer box is one way (not cheap), but you can also drive a pump straight off the front of the crank or via a toothed pulley fixed onto the front of the crank pulley and a belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 What a ridiculous idea! Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I have a hydraulic PTO off the back of my transfer with auto box and it's fine. Means you can't "drive assist" though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibbon Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Good luck on the build!! There's something about well sorted leafers that I like! I'm still gathering the bits for my build like a magpie! haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Thanks for the replies Pump in front of the crank pulley would be nice, "cleaner" job; as to the gearbox, I'd like to keep the choice of drive assist, although I could live without it... Leafsprings: SOA or not? I guess some WB stretch would be mandatory, I'd like to have the wheels as forward as possible for the best approach/exit angle, but I fear it's not easy given the necessary mounting points for the leafs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Right..... If you're gonna be on an 88" wheelbase then you need to bear in mind that a series is set up very different to a coiler. If you go disco 200tdi it'll bolt straight up to the series engine mounts. BEar in mind that the whole drive train sits a hell of a lot lower in a series than it does in a coiler, so adding something in front of the crankshaft pulley will casue you problems as when at full bump it will get clouted by the axle casing. The axle casing only just clears the pulley on the 200 tdi in my 88". Transmission lenght will also be a problem. You will not get a discovery gearbox in it as its all too long! Auto box is therefore out as there is no way to shorten them! You can fit a defender LT77 and LT230, but this works out about 6" longer than the series trans. The rear prop then instantly needs to be 6" shorter. You'll then struggle with rear prop lengths if you go with a salisbury rear as the salisbury is about 2" longer than the rover diff. I run defender LT77 and Lt230 with rover diffs in my 88" and my rear prop is only about 12" long. Finally to suspension. Fit a decent set of parabolics, some 1 tonne shackles, and relocate the shock mounts and you'll get more travel than many coilers have got. The limit frankly is the propshafts. You will not be able to go SOA and have propshafts that actually work at full suspension travel. On mine, even with the highest angle U/J's you can get, and also having taken the grinder to them, they are still the limiting factor! HTH, but its not all as simple as it looks. In addition disco axles - bear in mind that the steering linkage wanst to go through the middle of where the springs are. I've seen some horrible, horrible, ways around this, but frankly none that I'm overly impressed with to date from an engineering point of view. You'll need wheels with lots of offset to give you any sort of steering lock with 36" tyres on, and will have to hack huge lumps out of the rear tub to clear, plus cut off the lower edges of the front of the front wings for clearance and also move the front bumper up/forwards else the tyres will rub on full lock. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Thanks Jon, mucho appreciated. Auto box is therefore out as there is no way to shorten them! D'OH!!! Not even if with massive surgery?? Relocation of engine/tranny all the way back (better for weight distribution)? some 1 tonne shackles Along with front dumb irons extension? We might keep the Series axles casings, although the rims would be "ridiculously offset" to clear the tyres Front wings and rear tub will be trimmed and stylish Front bumper and rear x-member, all custom made to house the winches... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Here is some inspiration for you, i love this landy................. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Ha! I know the truck My fav is Tim's ex 107", but they're all LWB... P.S. And why on earth can't I save/download pics anymore!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jericho Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 My opinions- With hydraulic winches,don't go down the pto drive route.Wheel speed and winch speed are way out of sync. Also,switching rapidly between neutral and drive on an old lt230 can be very uncertain - with a winchman stood infront of the vehicle you need to be sure it is not in drive.I found the experience unacceptable in a competition situation. I think you will find it almost impossible to find room for a pump in front of the crank unless you cut out the front cross member and move the radiator panel forwards - in which case there is no point using the series front end. What you are left with is a pump mounted on the engine and driven by a belt or chain.On a 300 this is easy to do by mounting the pump in the aircon position - never looked that close at a v8.The pump can run at engine speed (or faster)and drive to the pump is independant of drive to the wheels via the main gearbox. Rear suspension on a series (long or short WB)is very acceptable just by using parabolics,and longer travel shocks (with a bit of bodywork trimming).But the front suspension is rubbish,both in terms of flex,and the problems of axle tramp.It may be possible to fix these problems in a satisfactory way,but it was these issues that lead me to abandon front leaf spring suspension on my series. Do you really have to keep the leaves?How about coils on the front and leaves on the rear? Good luck with the project.IIa s are the best looking LRs going.give us plenty of photos. All the best.Jerry. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Ok Ok here is an 88 to wet your appitite............ Nice look but i wonder how it handles in offcamber situations due to height! G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Thanks Jon, mucho appreciated. D'OH!!! Not even if with massive surgery?? Relocation of engine/tranny all the way back (better for weight distribution)? Along with front dumb irons extension? We might keep the Series axles casings, although the rims would be "ridiculously offset" to clear the tyres Front wings and rear tub will be trimmed and stylish Front bumper and rear x-member, all custom made to house the winches... No - compare the lengths and you'll see what I mean! There is no short bellhousing for an autobox as its got to contain the torque converter! If you shift the engine and tranny back at all you'll end up with an impossible rear prop shaft as it will simply be too short! The only way around it would be if you were to extend the wheelbase in the middle (ie move the entire rear end rearwards) so allowing a longer rear prop. However you cant move it back very far at all without having to cut the bulkhead out as the engine is only a couple of inches off of the bulkhead anyway. Dont forget the engine in a series is a long way back anyway due to the front grille being about 12" further back than on a coiler to start off with! As someone said - rear suspension with well set up parabolics works well. Front can be made to move well, but eats spring eye bushes, and front axle tramp is a problem when climing. I'm yet to see an anti-tramp setup that doesnt limit suspension travel. If you keep the series axles the limiting factor is shaft strength. IMHO you cant run much more than 33" tyres with series axles as the uprated shafts are not on the market at a reasonable price. I run KAM rear shafts, but no-one make uprated front shafts, and with 33" tyres they're on their limit. I am aware that there is someone in the states IIRC doing uprated shafts that use toyota parts IIRC but at the best part of £2000 a set I dont consider them to be realistic! On the same note, I think I'd look into alternate axles - nissan patrol axles have a reputation for being bullet proof, or maybe hi-lux ones? Just a thought, as if you fitted disco axles you'd be throwing all the internals away anyway to run 36's. HTH Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 @ Grem, I know that as well Nice, and I agree about the height. The truck in the metal might be different though, who knows. @ Jerry What you are left with is a pump mounted on the engine and driven by a belt or chain a la Type R? Do you really have to keep the leaves?How about coils on the front and leaves on the rear? Yes and no...yes as the truck is supposed to be a company truck and prove you can build a capable vehicle using simple off-the-shelf parts (erm, within certain limits of course), and no as in the end the truck has to be capable and up to the task so if leafsprings should become a limit the scheme could change... @ Jon No - compare the lengths and you'll see what I mean! Sigh...I guess until I'll have the bits on the floor it's hard to realize what's possible and what's not. On the same note, I think I'd look into alternate axles - nissan patrolaxles have a reputation for being bullet proof, or maybe hi-lux ones? I'd rather go Hilux are they're cheaper, but I'll have to use what's available and stay within the budget limits imposed by the "sponsor". I'd happily go portals (Will Davenhill's LWT jumps to mind, I always liked it a lot) but I fear the bill would cause somebody an heart attack! There are a couple of donor vehicles other than the 88", a Disco Tdi and a RR P38 I heard. Plus RRC spares (axles included). Using the Disco/Rangie casings would give slightly increased WB for free and it's easy to convert to Toy CVs, std ARBs for Rover diffs would be enough I believe I know what mechanical simpathy is and I have enough common sense not to grenade the driveline just for the sake of it. Ta all for the inputs, one of the first things I've been asked is a mods list, this way I can bin some ideas which will never work and take new ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Rebel Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Gearbox delivered today PLEASE tell me you still want it and hows its getting to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Will Davenhill's LWT jumps to mind, I always liked it a lot Its for sale I believe. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy511 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Its for sale I believe. Daan it sold on devon. best way to go with a leafs is to emulate the old gone2far kit for massive articulation, buy some revolver shackles from the us, make some pivot mounts for the front dumb irons and make new shock mountings. if your going for standard shackle set up, use standard landrover spring and remove leaves until your happy with the performance, they flex alot more than parabolics but youll run the risk of breaking springs. on my series i ran +2" rear shocks, standard rear shocks up front, parabolics, millitary shackles and got some very good results. if your going down this route id fit a locker in the rear as the whole vehicle usually follows the front axle (due to the lack of movement) and leaves a rear wheel waving. ive always had a theory, if you put the shackles on the front dumb irons instead of the chassis like jeep and suzuki sjs, the front end would move alot more as the wheel tries to climb up over obstacles and pulling the spring streight therefor compressing the spring. might be worth a try. you could move the engine and box forward by running defender wings, bonnet and front pannel, but itll look aweful in comparison, this would allow you to fit an auto box but the weight distribution wouldnt be great. you could also go down another route and make a 100" leafer, wich would allow you to fit a defender lt77 box or possibly an auto. itll also help with the RTI of the finished vehicle meaning less work required on the suspension. i still love leafers, they give alot more wow factor when you drive through difficult sections, the only thing i hate is being bounce out of the seat even at 2 miles an hour! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Wondered where you had been hiding Michele. making plans in secret by the looks of it, good luck with the build & don't forget we like lots of in build photo's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 if your going down this route id fit a locker in the rear Let's take for granted this thing will be locked Thanks for the suggestions. I'd like to stretch the WB but it's all down to the sponsor/owner and the time/resources we might use. I haven't taken pics of the pile of parts yet but will do soon, the old battered ex-MoD looks sweet though, all innocent and waiting for something to happen... Wondered where you had been hiding Michele Always been here mate, it's just than I post when I have something to say level of threads moved and became too technical or specific for me sometimes and not always I'm able to keep up with it But I'm here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 You mentioned extending the 88" chassis to 100". Wouldn't this solve the propshaft problems with the autobox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treebloke Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 My old girl is 88" but the leaf's are long gone. I have resisted the urge to go to 100" because I have no problems at all with her being a shapely 88". I have a salisbury rear axle with X Eng trailing arms wound all the way in to straighten the propshaft alinement. I am also trying not to tray back her although she is heavily fortified I want to keep the Land Rover appearance for as long as possible. However, I keep taking the 9" to her as and when bits get battered beyond reasonable repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 You mentioned extending the 88" chassis to 100". Wouldn't this solve the propshaft problems with the autobox? I don't know Maybe...depending on engine/tranny location, lot of things to consider and I never done anything like that before. I guess everything can be done at a certain cost/effort but I'll stick to what's easier and practical and the parts available trying to make the best of them. My reason for stretch would mainly be for stability when driving up and down cliffs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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