Burnt Land Rover

[David Sparkes]

I was invited to navigate a bit of Recreational Driving on Bank Holiday Monday around the Derbyshire Peak District. Normally I'd avoid doing this sort of thing on a BH, but a free trip is a free trip, etc.

At about 11am we came across a burnt out Disco blocking the road. Got out to have a look, and despite the cleansing wind we have had for a few days, it still smelt 'burnt', so we decided it was recent, and should be reported. My travelling colleagues identified it as a TD5. At this point we assumed it was a case of 'stolen and burnt'. Where it was it would have been visible for miles over the valley, so quite a spectacle, if that is what your ego craved.

I used the Non-Emergency line for Derbyshire (0345 123 33 33). Giving a location was interesting, as the operator wanted physical cross references, which can be difficult on a Green Lane. While she accepted a Grid Ref she wasn't used to them, and went onto other questions when I paused after the first 5 digits. Learning Point for me was Next Time, tell them I'm giving them a 10 figure Grid Ref, before reeling off the numbers.

Mildly Forensic bits.

While we were doing the practical things, like plotting the GR, and working out a drive round route without either moving vehicle rolling down the hillside, the non driving passenger in the second vehicle spotted some interesting points.

All the wheel nuts were off, and lying beside the wheels / hubs. Subsequently I realise I didn't positively look at all 20 studs, so that might be 'most', not 'all'. Nor did I count rims, so I'm not sure if there were 4 or 5.

One wheel was off the hub, but missing it's rim (melted), but I think the other rims were in place.

There was no bonnet visible.

While the rear bumper appeared as a mass of strands (glass?) lying as a swathe on the ground where you would expect, there was no sign of a front bumper.

Etched into the front passenger door was the lettering of a sticker saying 'Winch Bitch', so we half expected to see a winch bumper, but there was nothing.

Later, we thought that if the bonnet was aluminium, it would have melted / burnt and the remains fallen through the engine bay, but we had driven on by then. Are Disco 2 bonnets aluminium?

The Police called back inside 15 mins to say an incident had been reported the previous day, by the owner, to say the car had just 'caught fire'. The Fire Brigade had attended. The remains were the responsibility of the Insurance Company, and they would be cleared 'in due course'.

Thankyou very much, and goodbye.

Before reporting what we thought was possibly a stolen vehicle, looked for the windscreen VIN plate. Clearing aware the debris we found it, and being embossed, it was still readable. My colleague read it, so can someone just check if we got it correct?

SALLM97XA23559

Hmmm, that's only 14 digits, so he missed something. Is there enough to confirm model and year?

Where else is the VIN number, besides inside the windscreen?

Location, if someone local wants to have a look, is SK22310 73218.

I will say the car is burnt in it's entirety, there is nothing singed or scorched, it's all burnt. I did note at least one coil bound spring in the suspension!

The thought occurs that if a winch bumper had been removed for some reason, there may have been a loose electrical cable which could initiate a fire, even in a Diesel fuelled car.

If the car catches fire, would you unscrew the wheel nuts in an (apparent) attempt to save the wheels and tyres?

Perhaps they were new tyres.

Apart from that event the day was amazingly quiet, at least on the lanes.

Cheers, David.

[disco_al]

from the evidence you have gathered, it sounds very much to me like an insurance job - although that will be down to the insurance co to work out.

the bonnet is ally, and would have melted onto the engine. the lack of plastic around the front bumper area, and the fact that the bumper was missing point strongly to it being removed, and as for the wheel nuts, well if your car catches fire the first thing you think of is getting away from it quickly, certainly not removing the wheels.

sounds very suspect to me. get some pics

[M&S]

Or maybe after the fire brigade put it out the owner decided they'd get the wheels and bumper before some theiving scroates got to them...

Let's hope it is no one from the forum who has lost their pride and joy...

[BogMonster]

SALLM97XA23559 is definitely wrong

Filling in the missing letters so it makes sense it would be SALLTGM97XAxxxxxx, so there is an unknown digit missing from the last six in the serial number. Given that it's an XA vin (start of the Td5s 99MY) I would expect the VIN to probably start with a 9 (because they started at 900000 and go up, then IIRC started at 200000 and went up for the next run of vehicles, though I don't recall when the 9xxx numbers finished) so it's possibly 923559?

VIN is located on the chassis next to the steering box if you're feeling really keen

If correct that would be a fairly early Td5 Discovery 2, 1999 model year, RHD manual.

[David Sparkes]

Or maybe after the fire brigade put it out the owner decided they'd get the wheels and bumper before some thieving scroates got to them...

I didn't count the wheel remains, but those that were there were partially melted remains, use for nothing but scrap.

If the bumper was in the fire it was worth no more than scrap metal - just like the other remains.

I saw wheelnuts on the ground, but while I have a magpie instinct I wouldn't pick those up. The nature of the metal is almost bound to have changed, more importantly, to an unknown degree (as far as my knowledge is concerned, IE I have no metallurgy training).

Cheers

[will4x4]

SALLM97XA23559 - Yeah definately wrong - LM states its a Range Rover

[western]

if you go back, make sure if you touch any part of the remains that you wear gloves, modern vehicle plastics & other materials are highly toxic even after a few days of a fire, don't touch if you don't have too.

[Bowie69]

Hmmm, Hydroflouric acid

Ouch

[David Sparkes]

if you go back, make sure if you touch any part of the remains that you wear gloves, modern vehicle plastics & other materials are highly toxic even after a few days of a fire, don't touch if you don't have too.

Thanks Western, and Bowie69,

I'm aware of the need to keep personal contamination to a minimum. When I found I hadn't packed my gloves I had my driver do the rooting for the VIN plate :-)

It's alright, I did get him to put on his gloves first!

Still, it's worth having a caution mentioned in the thread, thanks.

[western]

lets hope the fire was down to a genuine fault & not a insurance scam or fraud.

[Les Henson]

One I found a while ago.

Les.

[western]

what a sad sight, someone's much loved vehicle reduced to ashes.

[David Sparkes]

what a sad sight, someone's much loved vehicle reduced to ashes.

Ha - A difference in perception. When it's a Disco it's a possible insurance scam. When it's a Defender it's a 'much loved vehicle'.

One can but smile.

Anyway, some pictures from the 2nd May, the day after the actual burn (from the Police).

Look at the wonderful view in the background. On a clear day, like that was, it's magnificent, and well work pausing to savour.

Cheers.

[q-rover]

Shows how much of the body is steel.

[western]

Ha - A difference in perception. When it's a Disco it's a possible insurance scam. When it's a Defender it's a 'much loved vehicle'.

One can but smile.

Anyway, some pictures from the 2nd May, the day after the actual burn (from the Police).

Look at the wonderful view in the background. On a clear day, like that was, it's magnificent, and well work pausing to savour.

Cheers.

Now I didn't mean that, either are vehicles lost & both were probably the owners pride & joy. very sad to see any vehicle in a burnt out condition.

[Mo Murphy]

There were some Tesco's shopping trollies dumped in a river near here, would these have been possible insurance scams then, too ?

Ah, my coat ............

Mo

[David Sparkes]

To recap, I was passenger in a vehicle when we found a burnt out Disco 2 on May 2nd at SK 22310 73218.

I reported it to the Police, who were aware, it being reported by the owner on 1st May. I also made the Peak Park Rangers aware.

The Police said it was the responsibility of the Insurance co. to remove.

I visited the burn site on 6th May, and saw the main carcase of the vehicle had gone (but lots of rubbish left).

I can now confirm BogMonster's interpretation of the VIN - SALLTGM97XA235590

New stuff.

At a meeting on Wed 18th May I was assured the vehicle remains were still 'up there', and this was confirmed on 22nd May.

Later that day I visited the burn site, this time driving through it towards Deep Rake, where I found the shell. From the rusty water mark on the ground it had probably been there some time.

Judging by the loose nuts and bolts seen about the place, person or persons unknown had been undoing bits. Any one like to identify the alloy cover plate?

WHY?

Why would anyone drag a carcase from an isolated spot to another isolated spot another 1/4 mile away from the nearest tarmac road?

Why would anyone think that parts from a total burn out can be any good for anything except scrap?

'Bears of very little brain' is a polite summation of my thoughts.

I have re-reported it to the Peak Park, who will chase the Police to chase the Insurance Company, etc, etc, etc.

BTW, I drove to the site in a standard Peugeot 205, so I'm pretty damn sure a flatbed transit, or similar could make it.

Anyway, a couple more pictures for posterity.

It's current location at SK 22595 73495

Identification sticker burnt into the metal of the NSF door

Lastly, a couple of teasers; why would the OSR hub have a spacer, and the NSR hub be spacer-less?

And lastly, the mysterious alloy cover plate (the other side was flat, with the remains of a gasket around the bolt holes). I found this lying in the grass, where it's pictured.

That's all, for now!

[Les Brock]

Cover plate for a LT230 transfer box

[Bowie69]

Someone tried to get the shell off piste so tehy could weigh it in, and the ali bits (yes its an LT230 coverplate) came off when they failed first method, as it's very valuable (£1000/ton or thereabouts).

[PITBULL]

£1000/ton? surely thats a typo otherwise im off out to buy some £500 disco's did you hit the zero one to many times

[rtbarton]

Last time I weighed some steel in it was £100/tonne, copper wire £5000 and aluminium £600

[V8 Freak]

One I found a while ago.

Les.

Did you get it through the MOT Les??

Neil

[Bowie69]

No typo..... £1000/ton is the correct price........

Ten kilo alloy wheel = £10.

[David Sparkes]

No typo..... £1000/ton is the correct price........

Ten kilo alloy wheel = £10.

That may be why the melted alloy wheels were collected first, but I do wish someone would organise themselves to collect the rest, as it's a damned unsightly lump at the moment. The engine and both axles still exist, as well as the shell. I assume the bulk of the gearboxes are still there, as otherwise I'd have expected the cover plate to go with them.

If you put those two grid references into the hug OS map site you will see it was has been taken further away from any tarmac road.

Burn position SK 22310 73218

Position at 22nd May SK 22595 73495

Regards.

[CwazyWabbit]

Surely to get that cover plate off you would need to roll the wreck on it's side? I can't think of anything that would warrant that sort of effort......

Is there a chance the wreck was moved by someone to make it easier to pass? quite unlikely I know.