will4x4 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Hi guys. I have installed my hydraulic winch but am getting some problems.. the winch works perfectly however as soon as I rev my engine I am getting loads of noise inside the cab which sound like trapped air (so bad that you can’t hear anything else) … if I take the lid off the tank you can see bubbles getting pushed out… I have tightened every joint but still can’t stop it… any ideas ?? I am in surrey if anyone fancies fixing it .. £100 if you can do it before Friday Thank you Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I'm sure an adult will be along shortly, but are they not self bleeding ? have you left it running with the lid of the tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will4x4 Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 yeah they are self bleeding but i must be sucking in air from somewhere...i have no idea now.. checked every connection twice.. not losing any oil.. but its sounds bad...comming through the levers... really noisey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Can hydraulic pumps cavitate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Yes , and that sounds like what it is , whats the system spec? cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Does sound like cavitation. What displacement is your pump and what pipes are used? Also keep in mind most hydraulic pumps only have a limited rev range that should not be exceeded, to avoid the problem of cavitation (which can and will damage your pump). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will4x4 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 the winch works fine its just if i rev ever so slightly i get a very loud noise which sounds like its coming from the levers? i have checked and replaced most on the suction pipes and still no sucess? i am going to try by passing the levers and plubling the return from pump straight to the tank and see if air bubbles come through.... can the levers draw air though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I suspect its cavitation, rather than air, if you're sure all the joints are good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will4x4 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 how do i get rid of cavitation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Gear the pump down so as to reduce RPMs below the pump's maximum. Cavitation happens when the pump spins too fast and it actually causes vaccum cavities in the liquid. These cavities then collapse under the high pressure surroundings and can release a lot of energy and damage impels etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 How is your pump driven? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Had this problem when we ran standard milemarker type R winches always worked ok but so noisey and oil got hot after speaking to flow fit hydraulics upgraded the control valves and problem solved,and the winches were much better quicker and more powerfull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smego Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Have an x9 you can borrow Will.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 whats the system spec? cheers Steveb Its a bit impossible to offer any further help without some Specs ..tank size ..pipe size ..filter loc'n ..valve type ..pump/motor..... cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will4x4 Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 thanks guys. i think it will be to diffiuclt to diagnose over the net.. i will replace the bits systemataticaly till it works. thanks for your help you have given me some things to crack on with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Just replacing bits like for like without knowing the size/spec of the system and it's components won't solve anything. You've probably not got faulty parts (or at least wouldn't have started out with them), but more fundamentally, mismatched components. If that's the problem, and you remain with mismatched components, the problem won't go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 When I upgraded to a PTO pump for a milemarker I was told quite strongly that I had to change the origional milemarker solinoid valve as it would not allow enough flow and I would get problems. Sounds like something in your system isn't matched up correctly, if the noice is coming from near the valve then that would seem a good pace to start. Speak to some one directly with good knowledge (flowfit where quite helpfull to me) and they should be able to match the system together with the corrct size pipes, valve flow rates etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 An easy thing to try first is to increase the bore and/or reduce the length of the pipe from the tank to the pump inlet. Either of these will cause the inlet pressure to drop which will in turn reduce the speed at which cavitation occurs. If the inlet tubes are greater than the minimum size for the flow / length of tube then the cavitation is being caused by the bore of the inlet to the pump - which is harder to change. In that case you need to either gear the pump down or fit a pump with lower cc/rev. Restriction caused by the port size of the solenoids being too small will limit the speed of the winch and will cause the PRV Pressure relief valve to open when you rev the engine (because the fluid cannot escape fast enough through the valve which causes a pressure spike on the pump outlet) The valve chattering open and closed can sound similar to cavitation on the input. You can see if this is a problem by connecting the output of the pump directly back to the tank. If the noise goes away - suspect the PRV / valve combo. If not, cavitation on the input. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon_s Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 It's a Saley winch you're running isn it? Have you spoken to John? He obviously know's his stuff when it comes to hydraulics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Its unlikely to be speed as they can run at 3000rpm on a standard 3phase electric motor. The normal cause for cavitation is a blocked suction strainer in the tank. On rare occasions a colapsed hose is the problem. If its a completely new instalation it could be anything. (need details) But I run a 3/8" spool valve block when it should be 1/2". (30 lit/min ish) And run direct off the V8 crank. The suction hose is 3/4" bore, so it follows the rule of twice deliver area. The suction strainer is a long one and is a mesh rather than a filter. (only filter on the return to tank). But also be aware of tank vortex, when the oil does like your plug hole. If its any help they arn't quiet. Mine sounds like this though a lot of noise in the vid is cooling fans. We really need photo's to help. Where are you based? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Thats a neat idea How does it stand up under full load offline pulls? cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Suprisingly well. There's twitchy moment when you first try it, but on the first layer and with a full 90degree left side pull, it can lift the right hand wheels off the ground We're well happy with it, as it makes a very capable winch just that bit better, because you can move the rope onto a fresh piece of 'first wrap', to get your pull power back, unlike a deep drum. Simples. I hope will4x4 sorts his system out, as hydraulic is kick-ass over electric. Stalling out electric winches makes me wince, but stalling out the hydraulic is nowt to worry about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will4x4 Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 thank guys not working yet but will run the return from pump back to tank and see what happens... if no bubbles i will replace levers if there are bubbles i will replace suck pipe... uuum if anyone is in surrey who can sort this any help would be much appreciated in the form of beer / cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Sounds a good test that. And its what happens when you test with a flow meter. You replace the driven thing with the flow meter and restrict the flow down with it's valve. And if that looks wrong you connect direct to the pump and do the same test (without blowing the pump up) As you havn't got one of those though; if it runs freely from the hose back into the tank, and can generate pressure, then its normally okay. And it's the pressure test which has led me to fit 3/8" bsp test points to the winch circuit and power steering circuit as well as having a gauge permanently 'T'eed into the 'winch-in' hose. I guess its the oil equivalent of a multi-meter. Fingers crossed it's an obvious fault..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyb Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Will i will answer the questions put to you see if it helps :-) , 30cc pump chain driven from the crank, cogs are the same diameter (if that makes a difference) has guage inline a filter on the suck side. pressure pipe is 1/2 and suck is 3/4. dual lever /valve block 12 litre tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.