heating a chilly 2a

[alfmech]

i have owned my chilly old 1964 88" ragtop 2a for a few years now and have still been unable to get any heat from the so called heater and now its approaching winter again i thought i better crack on and sort something

i was wondering if anyone had found and effective yet inexpensive way of demisting and pilot defrosting short of applying a naked flame to the pilot and removing the glass

i looked into the erbespacher type heater units but was soundly scared off of them due to horrific prices and have yet to find anything else

input would be greatfully recieved

[CJRH]

Put a heater from a VW Polo in, will require some brackets to bolt it to the bulkhead but not too much work.. Multi speed and far more powerful.

Chris

[Retroanaconda]

Not familiar with IIA bulkheads and dash design, but if it has the same ducting arrangements as a Series III then fit a Defender heater. I have on in my Series III (just bolts on in place of the standard heater matrix housing) and with the 2.25 petrol it pumps out an unreal amount of heat!

I guess if the design of the heater ducting is different on a IIA with the different dash etc. then it wouldn't work as a plug-and-play solution. With a bit of ducting on the inside of the vehicle it would work, though the same would go for any car heater (as above), it's just a Defender one fits the footwell nicely (or does on SIII anyway!).

[CJRH]

The 2a has the round Smiths heater mounted on the inside of the bulkhead above the transmission tunnel so no intake on the wing etc. You could fit a Defender heater but would probably be more work and the Polo heater gives more heat.

[FridgeFreezer]

An issue is that the engine runs quite cool by modern standards too, so you're losing a fair deal of efficiency there (greater temperature difference = better heat transfer).

My solution, although some would call it spendy, was to fit a heated screen so that I could see where I was going, and then fit a diesel-fired Eberspacher D2LC to warm the cab.

The two are independent - I can demist the screen quickly without having to warm the whole cab, and I can warm the cab very effectively even with the engine off (Eberspacher runs off the split-charge 2nd battery). They are also both very efficient - the screen is faster & more effective than most heaters at clearing, and the Eberspacher sips a thimble-full of diesel and very little power once running and chucks out enough hot air to set your hair on fire, even in a very draughty 109csw.

I could probably live without the heated screen but I'd have the Eberspacher again in a shot. The Freelander has an Webasto diesel water heater and that is on course for being wired up to a remote control before winter sets in as it's really lovely to arrive at your car on a cold morning and it's already warm & ice-free.

[alfmech]

thanks for the responses

whilst i would love to get the eberspacher and heated glass i simply cannot justify the huge expense to the wife who will simly say "drive the the other car (3series BMW bleh!) if its too cold" despite the obvious arguments in favor of land rover in snow

the polo heater sounds interesting can anyone shed any light on that for me? or link some pics?

[Daan]

I dont have a heater in my series for weight reasons, plus the original s3 heater is useless. Last winter, I had an electric seatcover heater, which plugs into the cigarettelighter, and it is absolutely mint! I have to unplug it halfway through my commute, or My bum overheats!

The problem of the front window icing up was solved by fitting a little electric fanheater, bought for a tenner on ebay, which also plugs into a cigarettelighter.

I dont have to de-ice, because I always park it in the garage, so it is a quick getaway in the morning too.

Last winter, the driving experience in my series 3 landy was fantastic as such.

Daan

[FridgeFreezer]

12v Eberspachers can be had for ~£150 on eBay, add a £5 jerry can and you're away.

Motorbike heated clothing is a pretty efficient way of doing things, albeit a bit more faff.

[alfmech]

i would really like the eberspacher type setup but have yet to see one go for sensible money, will keep looking while i investigate the vw polo heating idea though unless someone has a eberspacher setup lurking they want to part with nudge nudge wink wink lol

[secondjeremy]

http://www.holden.co.uk/displayproducts.asp?sg=1&pgCode=083&sgName=Electrical&pgName=Heaters+%26+Electrical+Fans&agCode=0205&agName=Circular+Heaters

[jerboa]

Drawing inspiration from the arctic WOLF's the Marines use, they have an extra heater built in to the space where the middle seat in the front would normally be and a some outlet pipes. Has anyone ever thought of building a heat exchanger/motorbike radiator into a cubby box for some extra BTU's?? Could use some airless connectors (provided you filled it up first) and a motorbike radiator can be had for peanuts. If you're lucky they'll come with a fan too..!

[ejparrott]

I've been slowly building up a 'case' for a Series heater matrix which has a 7" fan bolted on the back, and 3 direction outlets on the front...was going to put it on top of the bulkhead in the middle of the 88, and was thinking about a simple heat exchanger on the exhaust underneath. My reckoning being that the engine struggles to produce enough heat as it is....but the exhaust produces ample!

[alfmech]

definatly some food for thought here i havent seen a heater setup go on fleabay for less than the 150 mark thats working and complete but am still looking, i have toyed with several bodgeups involving water from engine and only ever seem to get tepid air from them, i had no idea these old lumps ran so cold i hadnt thought about using heat transfer from the exhaust, how would you best go about building a suitable heat exchanger though?

[Landy-Novice]

using the exhaust heat, could you utilise the old heater, instead of engine heat, use exhaust heat, sounds simple actually, no pump is needed on the basis that hot water rise, cool water falls, just need a tap to stop the hot water going into the heater in the summer, stainless steel pipe so no corrosion

[jerboa]

The only problem with turning off the water on a water-to-water heat exchanger is that it'll eventually boil.

What about the heat exchanger from an air cooled VW beetle/van? They're compact and are air-to-air - no need for complex plumbing!

[ejparrott]

When I built The 109's exhaust, I was hoping to get a striaght length in that I could use a stainless section for, unforunately it didnt quite happen. But, when the steel exhaust rots through, I will have a stainless replacement built. I intend to get a length of 8mm microbore heating pipe from the plumbers, anneal it, and then wrap it around the exhaust, possibly wrapping in insulating bandage too. Using compression plumbing fittings, I could then connect up through the floor to an auxilliary heater.

An expansion vessel would be a good idea, a completely closed circuit has the possibility of over-pressurizing if the exhaust was to put out enough heat.

As for summer running, dump the water - no need to worry about it boiling.

[Bowie69]

Why not plumb the exhaust heat exchanger into the engine coolant system, just make sure it runs to the heater matrix first, that way you would get faster warm up times and more heat inside, and a purpose built pressurized water system.

Or am I being over simple about it?

[Landy-Novice]

faster warm up times..

i thing there used to be a cylinder head mounted heater for that?

**EDIT**

ahh, yes there is, page 12 http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/images/lroptions.pdf

[Snagger]

First, make sure the thermostat is working and that it's the hotter 82oC spec, not the standard MoD 74oC.

Next, try to cure as many draughts as possible - door seals may need replacing and doors often need adjustment. Pattern replacement door tops tend to be vertical rather than canted inwards in line with the wind screen and body sides, creating 1/2" gaps at the top. Seal up any gaps that can't be adjusted out with DIY draught-excluder tape.

Make sure the heater control valve is working - they are often seized or clogged, and SIII's Bowden cables are occasionally loose in the valve operating arm. Also make sure the pipe work from the head and the heater matrix are in good order - the steel pipes rust internally and the matrix becomes externally clogged with dust and mud while the inside blocks up with scale and detritus from the coolant system. Cleaning it out thoroughly with caustic soda (and then thoroughly flushing with fresh water) helps a great deal, and make sure the engine coolant has a 50% mix with anti-freeze to prevent rust and scale build up in the future. The steel pipes can be lagged with domestic foam pipe insulation to prevent heat loss under the bonnet.

In SIIIs, make sure the heater ducting is all good - the corrugated duct from blower motor to matrix housing is usually in a poor state, allowing a lot of air loss under the bonnet, and the main trunking (which forms the lower fascia) is often full of debris and leaks from screw holes and impact damage.

SIIs and Lightweights don't have ducting issues for the heater generally, but the demister vent piping can split. Dunsfold LR has plenty in stock for a vey cheap price (I just replaced the split hoses on my LW). While the heating capacity of these Smiths heaters is less than the SIII heater, they do recirculate the same cabin air rather than continually heat external cold air, so should eventually warm the cab up. Recirculating the same air does mean that moisture from occupants' breath does build up and fog windows more than heaters which use an external source, so having a slight opening in a window from time to time is required. just to vent the vapour.

I haven't had a detailed look, but I think it'd be fairly simple to fit a SIII or Defender heater (stripped down) into a cubby box. Failing that, you should be able to fit one under the tub floor and und ducting through a cubby box or the seat base. MoD winterised 90s and 110s had simple convection heaters along the tub floor sides, fixed tot he wheel arches; these are just lengths of pipe with fixed fins and protective front panels which work just the same as domestic radiators - these run from the engine coolant using a T-piece in each of the normal heater hoses and a separate control valve in that circuit.

As far as pre-heating goes, electrical units like the Kenlowe Hotstart work reasonable well, taking about 30 minutes to warm the coolant and engine enough that you have instant demisting and tepid air on a sub-zero morning, but only where you have access to an electrical hook-up. Their advantages over Eberspachers and Werbastos are simply price, size and ease of fitting. The Eberspachers and Webastos are far more effective and flexible, being usable anywhere, even on the move, though. Just be warned that those fuel fired heaters do use vehicle electrical power, so if being used to pre-heat the vehicle for sequential short journeys, you will need to recharge the battery frequently or fit a dual-battery system.

[tacr2man]

I ran diesel 109 early on in my landrover owning life. You can fit a 88C thermostat , and fit a rad muff , you only need about a 4"sq hole for normal use cooling , IIRC their was a deeper matrix available for the smiths round heater . The next mod was to fit what landrover call a fume curtain behind the front seats which saves having to try and heat up the whole vehicle. I fitted a second heater matrix /blower unit from a mini van in the rear wheelbox which worked well enough to demist the rear window as well. HTSH

[alfmech]

ok so i brought a d3l eberspacher unit from a guy on that auction site everyone keeps on about, it has turned up and although fairly compact its still bigger than expected so time for a change of plan.

has anyone here fitted one of these to a 88" IIa soft top and if so where is the most sensible place to mount it?

i was thinking of behind the seat bulkhead knock up a plywood cover to prevent mashing it when i fill the car up with the usual carp and then trying to find a way of feeding the ducting through and connecting to the original square style heater box on the bulkhead so i can still use the demisters and floor heaters, good idea?

the obvious flaw in my plan is how do i route the ducting causing minimum carnage and heat loss? do i go through the floor then through battery box (straight through back to fron of it) along the tunnel and in or is there a better way i havent thought of yet

i could just let it heat the rear of the car but it will i guess take forever to defrost the front of the car (though i would have nice warm tools to use when i break the landy next)

is there a better location for the heater? maybe in the footwell though that seems a little dodgy with people jumping in and out always kicking it

input would be appreciated

[ejparrott]

I would suggest removing the n/s wing, cutting out the series inner wing, and fitting in a 90/110 inner wing. I've done this on both sides of my 109, and its amazing the amount of space it has freed up in each side. My intention is to get a screen wash tank that fits under there, to free up space, and stuff an airbox under there, freeing up more space. There's never going to be quite as much space as a 90/110 because the rad is set back, but its made a massive difference. The 88 will be modified at chassis swap, and the project 109 is being built this way....I'll see if I've any pictures...

[Andy]

I've just fitted a Robin Reliant heater on the bulkhead between the seats on my S3 Ltwt. The plumbing goes under the floor & just appears where it needs to reach the matrix. I drilled a load of holes in the bulkhead as an air intake for the heater & hammered it out into a curve to clear the fan. Then I just needed a duct to keep the warm air in the cab as shown here http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=73098

I've not tried it yet though, it seems to pump out warmth when parked so I'm hopeful.