dirtydiesel Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 The front D70 is a lot stronger than a D60. https://wastegate.net/mav/tech Remember the old adage "to finish first, first you have to finish" How many DNF's due to rover axles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted May 24, 2013 Author Share Posted May 24, 2013 Absolutely correct dan, I have been to challenge events and suffered smashed diffs and broken shafts.Take for example Jim Marsden at KOH - axle failures meant he couldn't continue the race. Having a vehicle that is bombproof and beyond pays. Even if I never win anything, im going to be at every event, enjoying myself! If i had deeper pockets id love some other axles, but Im not far wrong with these. Out of interest, does anyone know how heavy nissan patrol y60 axles are? ANYWAY! Slightly better pictures for those of you interested in Ackerman I've had 'cracked' off the brake callipers with a hammer, and had the discs spinning. All feels nice and 'tight' inside, clearly these axles haven't seen a great deal of use! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted May 24, 2013 Author Share Posted May 24, 2013 I whiped the dust cover off the end of the 80, purely to have a look. which means my half shafts look like this.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Out of interest, does anyone know how heavy nissan patrol y60 axles are? Found this at Pirate (Nissan H233B rear axle)Y60/Y61 axle weights 136 kilogram empty axle = 32 kg diff clock = 40 kg 2x axle shaft + wheel hub = 34kg Brake disks = 20kg brake calliper = 10kg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Are you going to run Hydro steering? if so single or double ram? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted May 24, 2013 Author Share Posted May 24, 2013 Yes full hydraulic steering. I may end up using two single ended double acting rams. Whatever I can find really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Those look BEEEEEFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Chris, got an old Strimech Grab lying around? I used a pair of rams off of one of those once for steering, the seals are cheap and easily available too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 unfortunately not lewis, I have been thinking about two of these rams but with rod ends link I've just been out and taken the rear diff cover off. unfortunately an open diff nice clean oil tho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Can you tell if you use one ram off road? I know it's unbalanced on speed, but I drove a tele-handler for years and could never 'feel' the difference when driving. It's like Gwyns steering-assist then. Worth mentioning I thought if you are on a budget Paint still on the axels, clean oil.....Looks like you've dropped on lucky there. They are ripe for a good kicking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 The good thing with a single ram is that you can keep the track rod and maintain the Ackerman, but might be worth upgrading the rod ends to a rose joint or similar to cope with the extra stress. Defo a good find with the axles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLineMike Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Dont be such a pessimist! How many challenge prepared 90's come under 2300kg? not many. Im building this on a shoe string budget. I don't intend to have to keep paying for replacement parts. So yes unbreakable is what i need. The pair of axles, with tyres will probably weigh around 900kg gives me over a ton for cage chassis engine drivetrain and winches plus your odds and ends. I don't foresee a problem. breg90 is correct, weight is everything, our previous challenge truck was 2300, the current buggy is 1900 +/- depending on event & it is a noticable differance, bearing in mind a creepy crawler on a beadlock rim is 60kg each, winches are roughly 50kg each (Gp's + 8274s) i think you will really struggle to get all your other parts of the build "built" for a ton in weight, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted May 27, 2013 Author Share Posted May 27, 2013 Can you tell if you use one ram off road? I know it's unbalanced on speed, but I drove a tele-handler for years and could never 'feel' the difference when driving. It's like Gwyns steering-assist then.Worth mentioning I thought if you are on a budget Paint still on the axels, clean oil.....Looks like you've dropped on lucky there. They are ripe for a good kicking offroad at low speed i dont think Id be able to tell if i only use a single single ended ram. But for a little bit faster, it think it would get strange. breg90 is correct, weight is everything,our previous challenge truck was 2300, the current buggy is 1900 +/- depending on event & it is a noticable differance, bearing in mind a creepy crawler on a beadlock rim is 60kg each, winches are roughly 50kg each (Gp's + 8274s) i think you will really struggle to get all your other parts of the build "built" for a ton in weight, When ive got a spare 4 grand to spend on axles (that won't be as strong) i might consider it, but at the moment, ill happily be a little heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 If you're interested, I probably have a double ended, double acting ram from my 4 wheel steer experiments which you could have for beer money! IIRC, they were 40mm bore, 250mm stroke with Female M16 threads in the ends and 1/4 BSP fittings. I may also still have the orbital valve (the bit you connect to the steering wheel) too. Just for a weight comparison - my Suzuki Jimny based truck (with Toyota 80 Axles and Fedima tyres, internal and external cages and 1 x 8274) weighs in at 1120kg It's actually very impressive what it will climb without the lockers! I decided it was easier to start with a light vehicle and keep it light than start with a heavy one and make it lighter! However, I think even a heavy 90 is a better all round vehicle. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Dirty Ninety, Not trying to have a dig at you - you can only p*ss with the co*k you've got. But you can chose how to use and dress it! The sport is about fighting gravity: Get across the bog climb the slippery slope and so on The axles may be bomb proof, but at 900kg are waaaayyyyy to heavy. They probably have their own gravity field! For comparision a rover axle is ~ 130Kg front and 110 Kg back(dick braked). Volvo portal - add 15 - 20 KG to each of those. If your limited in funds you need to be far more canny with the decisions you make compared to the average joe. Simon R's approach -cheap as suzuki. Bung under some rover axles. 24 spline will last under a 1200KG car. Drive past every one. Or buy some G waggon axles? Alternative build a tube style single seat lightweight buggy that will last on LR axles. My attraction to LR axles for you is that they are cheap. If you think out of the box and make a light weight car to run on them you will drive right past the challenge 90 brigade... Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I don't think they weigh anything like 900kg i'd say they are under 450kgSomething very important to remember is that although the extra weight will have a slight effect on its abilities, they will not break EVER!!When a days offroading is done I measure it by how much fun I've had, now this fun IS proportional to how capable my car is, what isn't fun is loading up a 10am because your chocolate axles have failed againFit the axles Chris, put your foot to the floor, and most importantly point and laugh when someone else breaks! (especially if they've taken this tiddle about your axles) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted May 27, 2013 Author Share Posted May 27, 2013 Yeah i was probably massively over exaggerating at 900kg, i shall have to get a weighing scales out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 B Reg 90 - you learn by experimenting. If I listened to all the nay-Sayers along the way, I wouldn't have built anything! Some of the things have been great and some not so, but I learned from all of them. I had the exact same response to putting heavy 80 series axles on a Suzuki - but it was for the same reason. I know that they will not break no matter what I do! (they have Longfield shafts too). This truck weighs 230kg more than my last one - but I felt it was worth it for the reliability, which so far has proven correct. If weight was the be-all, we'd all be running around on Quads! Chris - best of luck with your build. At the end of the day, it's your build and only you can decide what compromises you need to make. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Simon, Experimentation - agree 80 Series axles on Suzuki - don't see that as the same deal in my view, but that's just my view. You put strong enough axles on a light car, not monsters. Wieght - IMHO my orignal observation stands. However it was just that - a observation that can be considered, acted on, laughed at, ignored or anything in between. Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Yeah i was probably massively over exaggerating at 900kg, i shall have to get a weighing scales out! I suggest weighing them first before everyone starts having a go - then please add them to the weight thread for reference. I think you dont have a bad choice when it comes to axles - they will spin 40's quite happily while allowing you to compete on events were portals are not allowed. There are options to make these axles lighter at a later date; The Currie Rockjock allows you to fit the internals to an aluminium housing, while increasing groundclearance. Keep the updates coming! Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangeyRover Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Chris, Don't you already have a suitable ram? Or won't it work on this axle setup? Loving the beef by the way, breaking axles always used to p##s me off, especially as I never used a trailer. Stick with them or persuade Dan to build u a g wagen set. Dan might chime in here, but I always had a sneaking suspicion that dual wheel sprinter axles and diffs could be used with g locking arrangements. Never got around to proving it. Love to know if it was possible to make a really strong off road axle from dual wheel van axles. The yanks have been doing this for years, but because in the UK there is no corresponding strong front axle we seem to have ignored the possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 This is the only photo I can find of one of my steering rams. There was an identical one on the back too! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 Chris,Don't you already have a suitable ram? Or won't it work on this axle setup? Loving the beef by the way, breaking axles always used to p##s me off, especially as I never used a trailer. Stick with them or persuade Dan to build u a g wagen set. Dan might chime in here, but I always had a sneaking suspicion that dual wheel sprinter axles and diffs could be used with g locking arrangements. Never got around to proving it. Love to know if it was possible to make a really strong off road axle from dual wheel van axles. The yanks have been doing this for years, but because in the UK there is no corresponding strong front axle we seem to have ignored the possibilities. The ram you kindly gave me is a little small for the size of wheels I intend to run, however if somebody wishes to have hydraulic steering on say up to 35" tyres with little or no scrub radius please pm me. I shall get the axles weighed pronto. However, I'm not in the slightest bit worried. Im going to have plenty of engine bay room if I ever felt the need to fit a LSx v8 kicking out 600hp (might need to take out a loan though!) Hopefully by next week ill have some updates. Payday soon don't ya know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 you could level it out with some wood 1 end and the other some bathroom scales for a bit of gheto weighing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl hurst Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 How are you getting on with the axle conversion, In my opinion I would bin the 80 rear and get a D70 or a GM14 bolt, the 80 is way to heavy and locker choice is limited, get hubs that will take a LR disk and re bracket to take LR callipers, this will save a load of weight and you can fit LR stud pattern rims, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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