Tom17 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Got a mate giving me banter saying a jimny would destroy a defender off road Please give me some ammo to put this school boy to bed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Depends what type of "off road" he means, the Suzuki has light weight in it's favour and that could let it cross terrain that would sink a Defender. Against it, it has part time 4wd that's not as versatile, underpowered engine, limited suspension travel compared with a Defender, less ground clearance, especially as the Jimnys radius arm mounts hang down below the chassis and get hung up quite easily. The Jimnys not bad but as an out and out off roader I think the Defender would leave it behind. I work for a Suzuki dealer by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Get him to tow a loaded sankey off road with his Jimny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPendrey Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Erm, I'm not sure this helps you much, but a few winters ago I got my Disco 'grounded' on a frozen ridge in the muddle of some ruts. Two Suzukis tried to winch me out, and failed because they were so light (or was it because I'm so heavy?). Anyway, one RRC did it no problem. I realise that's not a Defender story, but it might help you promote LR above Suzuki in your disagreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Stick a 3.5 tonne trailer behind them and compare! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C18RCH Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 One of my mates put his money where his mouth was on that front trying to proove that a Lada Niva was better than a landy off road. After buying one and arranging a comparison session, me, and a couple of mates in their defenders and my other mate in his Niva, he never showed up. Couldn't get it started. We had a great day on salisbury plain without him. This happened several more times before he eventually scrapped it. I don't think that thing once completed a journey. Anyway, back to jimny's, Try and get 4 blokes, a couple of dogs and shooting kit in a jimney and then drive it across a muddy field. Oh, and when have you ever seen a jimney win a big off road event? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I'm probably the last person you would expect to disagree..... However, I am kind of qualified in that I own both! The main limitation of a Jimny as standard is the lack of articulation - though you can largely fix this by removing the front & rear anti-roll bars. If you add a 2" lift and some grippy tyres - it will give a Defender a run for it's money. In some situations a Defender will win and in others a Jimny - but it's nowhere near as cut & dried, one is better, as you might think (hope). The engine is under powered - but in low range it still develops sufficient torque. Also, the power and torque (at the wheels) to weight ratio is similar. It's big advantage is weight. Mine weighs in at 1150kg after a bit of a diet, but it does have internal & external cages, 2 x Winches, 35" Tyres, Toyota 80 Axles, twin Transfer box, 1 & 3 link suspension front & rear respectively. This compares to typical 2500kg for a similarly prepared Land Rover. I'm continually amazed at what it will climb - and the fact that you can drive over a lot of muddy sink holes without breaking the surface, where a Defender will sink. If you don't get bogged, you don't need the raw engine power to get you out! Lastly, a standard 8274 with Bow2 pulls as fast (under load) than a Defender with a Twin Motor Winch. Best of all, the base vehicle cost me £500. You don't get much Defender for £500! Granted, you cannot tow anything more than a wheelbarrow - I think the braked trailer limit is 450kg and 150kg unbraked! And you cannot fit a whole football team in it - but they are surprisingly comfortable. It even has drinks holders as standard! I think Land Rover could learn a lot from the evolution from Suzuki SJ to Jimny in terms of what the Defender 3 should be! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Oh, and when have you ever seen a jimney win a big off road event? OK, technically, it started as a Vitara - but what about Rogue Vogue4? Class Winners & 2nd overall in Howling Wolf - only beaten by MitsiMog / Rob Tunner + winners of several other events. Also Rob Butler's creations - all Suzuki based. Once you start looking, particularly in mainland Europe - there are a surprising number! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C18RCH Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Not familiar with that event, but I was thinking more of the ones like, The Rainforest Challenge, KoV, etc. I know there are plenty of Jimny's winning local events. As you say, they both have their strengths and weaknesses. My sister has a jimny and as 4x4 buggy it's great. As a serious off road workhorse, they're (as above) too small, under powered, and get stuck in land rover sized ruts or serious mud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 It's entirely horses for courses - just like 90 Vs 110, auto vs manual, tdi Vs V8, etc. etc. etc... sometimes a jimny is exactly the right thing and a defender isn't, sometimes it's the other way round. Drive what you like, don't worry about willy waggling, try to learn from the other stuff out there rather than write it off or pooh pooh it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Not familiar with that event, but I was thinking more of the ones like, The Rainforest Challenge, KoV, etc. Rob Butler achieved 2nd Place in KOV last year. Howlin' wolf was the AWDC Predecessor to KOV. It was more a national winch challenge series than a single speed event. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffR Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Got a mate in Devon who offroads and trials a Fiat Panda 4wheel drive! I was completely amazed at just where that little rattle trap could go! Like most folks are saying, horses for courses, a Defender can do things a Jimny couldn't and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 For any not really getting the Jimny, think of it this way. Do you think a coil sprung Series 1 Land Rover would be any good off road? Well a Jimny is largely that, just a lot more modern and doesn't leak as much. True it's no good at being a utility truck, but that's probably because it isn't a utility truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 For any not really getting the Jimny, think of it this way. Do you think a coil sprung Series 1 Land Rover would be any good off road? And half a ton lighter. Off road, the centre difflock stays locked most of the time - so it hardly matters that it's selectable 4x4. I agree that as delivered, a Defender is hard to beat. But how many of our trucks are standard? But as you start adding and upgrading, the gap closes rapidly. Do the same 'standard' off road mods to both vehicles and they are very well matched off road overall. At Slindon a few months ago, there were a couple of 90 owners taking the p out of a factory Jimny which had cross axled itself - jots of Jap-C*** banter. However, later at the end of the day, I recovered both of them from the Outback (deep ruts, water filled holes which will swallow a 110, very deep mud - advised Winch vehicles only, for good reason) I picked my way through it carefully, winched both of them through a big mud filled cross-axle - then drove through the same hole both ways just to show off! Before I'd rigged the winch, one of them suggested I get a 'proper 4x4' to help as no Jap-C*** was ever going to be able to recover a 90 'monster truck' like theirs. I offered to leave them there - which made him shut up! It made me feel smug! I know I'll never convince the die-hard Landy owners - and not you will never convince most Suzuki owners. But having a foot in each camp, I think they are both great vehicles. More similar than they are different. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark-night Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I used to run a lot of off road events in Devon, and when a jimmy first turned up at a nearly exclusive Laney event there was the usual laughter and rib digging, this one was to be fair really tricked out, whinches, external roll cage, huge lift etc, well by the end of the day it was him who was having the last laugh, that little car whent everywhere it was asked and more, I have a lot of respect for them as they are really underestimated,.... Still love my Landy though But as said its what you like that matters most,its completely 50/50 as who would win an off road comp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C18RCH Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Got a mate in Devon who offroads and trials a Fiat Panda 4wheel drive! I was completely amazed at just where that little rattle trap could go! Like most folks are saying, horses for courses, a Defender can do things a Jimny couldn't and vice versa. One of the beaters on my local shoot had a panda that he'd completely stripped to the bare essentials, 2 seats was about all that was left. Welded the rear diff up. It was unstoppable on mud, ice, anything slippy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffR Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 One of the beaters on my local shoot had a panda that he'd completely stripped to the bare essentials, 2 seats was about all that was left. Welded the rear diff up. It was unstoppable on mud, ice, anything slippy. It probably cost about the same price as a decent pair of Landrover tyres too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jai_landrover Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 2 CV's are Very good on mud for a 2WD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Motorcross bikes are pretty awesome off road too, extremely light and fast so will skip over the mud, very manouverable so you can pick your way around deep mud, but a bugger to fit a winch to and not much good in really deep water ..... ...... have I strayed too far from the original topic now? Generally just agreeing that it is pretty much horses for courses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 In reply to Simonr's post, Awesome vehicle, but you can't realy call it a Jimny with all those mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Horses for courses.... I'm a die hard LR fan, but still admire all the other brands which have advantages and disadvantages. Biggest advantage of a Zuk, has to be the weight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I think you can only compare them as per out of the factory and everybody knows it's gwagon and defenders but zuk's and landcruisers are so close behind there's not a lot in it. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Mike makes a very good point, comparing anything other than factory standard is impossible as it effectively just comparing the size of wallet/engineering prowess of the owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 In reply to Simonr's post, Awesome vehicle, but you can't realy call it a Jimny with all those mods. I agree, in it's current guise, it's not exactly factory spec - but I have driven one without any mods - and was genuinely surprised & impressed with where it went. It was that which decided be to use one as the base for a project. I started as a skeptic - but the actuality of driving and using one has totally turned around my opinion about them! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Mike makes a very good point, comparing anything other than factory standard is impossible as it effectively just comparing the size of wallet/engineering prowess of the owner. Not with off roaders. Very few people truly off road a 100% factory stock vehicle, most people do something to them. The Defender is slightly odd ball being that it has good clearance and flex in stock trim. But even a Disco1/2 or RRC can easily end up with body damage or ripping front spoilers off, even on mild off road terrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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