Land Rover auto jumbles

[ballcock]

Having been to Eastnor myself this weekend with my club I also wondered why the auto jumble was so poor. The foot traffic over the whole weekend was also down on the last time I was there. I would not knowingly buy any stolen items, If buying a large item from a trader then ask for a receipt and then take a photograph of their vehicle or them to cover yourself if it later transpires that it was stolen. as stated if the market is taken away then there is no demand and hopefully the level of theft would drop.

[UdderlyOffroad]

Back on-topic, I went to Newbery earlier in the year. Decent selection, but it does depend what you're looking for. I tend to pick up things that will need work, for not much money, late in the day. I walk straight past people asking £150 for a tatty winch bumper!

As I previously alluded to, there was a visible police presence there too, in a tidy 110!

[Bowie69]

The receipt thing only works if their stupid enough to put their real details down! Then you get to the point of asking for id and the issues that'd lead too!

Just ensure sellers register with the organisers with proof of ID and address, then a photocopy of the ID is displayed at the stall -no copy = no buy.

[Steve King]

Stolen parts are not the bargain less scrupulous types may think!

At the end of the day whilst there is a market for stolen Land Rover parts we all pay in the form our increasing insurance premiums!!

[Tetsu0san]

I am not a business and I accumulate stuff (like I bet most of you do) and I like to have a clear out every now and again. Personally, I would not like to give a receipt for everything I sell as there is a bit of a double edged sword here. On the one side the buyer feels that they have bought a legitimate item from a legitimate seller, but on the other side they then may/will expect that this item has some sort of warranty or guarantee. From the 'bloke clearing out his garage' (me ) point of view, he just wants shot of his items and to make a little money for his troubles. If the details given to the buyer make the buyer think that he can bring the item back because there is a problem, this will cause the seller to think twice about selling again.

There isn't really a way to fix this, other than to try to evaluate if the person you are buying from is legitimate or not. But I think forcing people to give a receipt will reduce the number of legitimate sellers too, as well as discourage the thieving pikeys.

As for the price rise in insurance policies, I don't think I have even insured a vehicle cheaper than a Land Rover. At £140 full comp I think you can't get a lot cheaper, even with the thefts of Land Rover's on the rise. I would say that the main reason for general price hikes in car insurance is because of the parasitic companies who keep texting me and ringing me about an accident I had 'within the last 2 years' and telling me I can claim £2846. And when quized about which accident, they can't give me details as that is 'not on my system, I will pass you through to a lawyer'. I let rip on the last company that rang me the other day, I don't know why but I was fuming (must have been a rough day at work) and told them in no uncertain terms that companies like that who try to get their lawyers to claim for stupid and ridiculous additional things (whiplash, replacement car, etc etc) on just a minor fender bender are the reason why most people can't afford to insure a car.

Man, that was a little off topic. Sorry about that.

[jason110]

I'm over in Helsinki, Finland with work at the moment, the local market traders have to display some sort of certification on there to stalls, presumably to prove ID/ paid there dues. Something similar could be adopted at the bigger shows, by way of online registration prior to attending.

[Ratty43]

While I can see your point about receipts it isn't difficult to write sold as seen on it. As a private seller that's all that is required. If on the other hand you are a business seller you still have a contractual duty to supply goods of a merchantable quality and fit for purpose regardless of if you have a written contract in the form of a receipt. If a business wouldn't give me a receipt I would walk away purely on the basis that they must have a reason not to want to be traceable. As to stolen goods; anyone who knowingly buys them is as much a thief as the vendor in my eyes.

[Anderzander]

As to stolen goods; anyone who knowingly buys them is as much a thief as the vendor in my eyes.

Bingo !

[Aragorn]

You have to be fairly naive if you think some "professional" theives cant sort out some ID and produce receipts complete with bogus address details to satisfy such rules?!

Or simply mix the stolen stuff in with a larger collection of legitimate parts with enough of a paper trail they can make everything look hunky dory should someone come knocking regarding a specific component.

Ok they then cant sell major components like engines due to serial numbers, but that wont deter them, they'll just ship those off somewhere else or strip them down into component parts that they can sell.

All you'll achieve is, as above, put off more genuine folk, who really dont want some scrotey chap whos bought a £3 wing mirror from your stall being provided with a nice receipt detailing your name and an address which quite likely contains more nice landrover parts they could help themselves to. I'm sure most on here wouldnt give randoms off this forum their address without knowing exactly who they were, and this is a fairly close knit place. Your certainly not going to want to give those details to any bod that happens across your stall!

[Ratty43]

You effectively give your address to anyone who buys an item from you on eBay so I really can't see the difference.

Another, more practical reason not to buy items that may be stolen is that you have no title to them so if the police take them back you get no recompense.

[Bowie69]

You have to be fairly naive if you think some "professional" theives cant sort out some ID and produce receipts complete with bogus address details to satisfy such rules?!

I had in mind copies of photo ID, like a driving licence, pretty sure most people at an auto jumble will have one of those!

[Tetsu0san]

There is a difference to selling on ebay and selling at a jumble in my opinion. But when selling in a field it is much the same as a car boot, where no-one expects to give or receive a receipt.

But the sort of things that an individual sells at a jumble may be different to what a trader will sell. When a trader has 10's of doors, a few bulkheads, 100's of knobs and props etc and a 'normal bloke' has a few headlights, a prop or 2, a door etc then there is a difference there too. If a 'normal bloke' turns up with a TDCI bulkhead and some immaculate doors, that is when I would be wondering where the source of these items come from.

But there may be a legitimate reason for these items. You just never know.

[Tanuki]

Over the last 15 years or so I've put something like a dozen 'component' vehicles [Land-Rover related, GT40/AC-Cobra replicas, a rebuilt Gartrac 4x4 Ford Escort rally-car and a Marcos] through SVA.

From this experience I don't buy *any* significant component [engine/gearbox/axle/steering/chassis/bodyshell] unless it comes with full paperwork from a business registered for at least three years at Companies House, and is accompanied by a VAT-receipt.

It may cost a bit more to source parts from reliable and authenticatable suppliers, but it's worth it.

Trust me.

A 3-day VAT-inquisition by HMC&E takes years off your life. Same goes for having the police go over every inch of your about-to-be-registered vehicle because they somehow suspect it's a 'ringer'.

[Aragorn]

I had in mind copies of photo ID, like a driving licence, pretty sure most people at an auto jumble will have one of those!

Sure, but i dont imagine many traders would happily advertise their home address details to punters, and especially not private sellers.

[simonr]

You effectively give your address to anyone who buys an item from you on eBay so I really can't see the difference.

Another, more practical reason not to buy items that may be stolen is that you have no title to them so if the police take them back you get no recompense.

The problem is that eBay don't honestly give a stuff if it's stolen or not - so long as they get their fees! I / X-Eng have reported stolen goods to them - but they want CPS level proof that it's stolen before they take action. A number of X-Eng parcels go missing from one mail handling depot. There is a seller on eBay selling regularly goods they have not purchased directly, which match the items 'lost in the post'. It's not enough to get a conviction - but it annoys me that it's going on and nobody will even investigate! I now send parcels through that area in anonymous, random packaging - and the problem has stopped and the seller has had no X-Eng kit to sell for the same period! Undoubtedly a coincidence! eBay, Royal Mail and the Police all want forensic proof before they even investigate.

Aragorn - I agree that any trader can produce a receipt with false details, but while some are happy to, others are very hostile to the idea. I think there is a clue in their attitude. Granted, not 100% but better than nothing!

Si

[tacr2man]

The problem is that eBay don't honestly give a stuff if it's stolen or not - so long as they get their fees! I / X-Eng have reported stolen goods to them - but they want CPS level proof that it's stolen before they take action. A number of X-Eng parcels go missing from one mail handling depot. There is a seller on eBay selling regularly goods they have not purchased directly, which match the items 'lost in the post'. It's not enough to get a conviction - but it annoys me that it's going on and nobody will even investigate! I now send parcels through that area in anonymous, random packaging - and the problem has stopped and the seller has had no X-Eng kit to sell for the same period! Undoubtedly a coincidence! eBay, Royal Mail and the Police all want forensic proof before they even investigate.

Aragorn - I agree that any trader can produce a receipt with false details, but while some are happy to, others are very hostile to the idea. I think there is a clue in their attitude. Granted, not 100% but better than nothing!

Si

Have you tried smartwater or some such to ID a couple of items and send them , as a target item for the suspect ?

[Anderzander]

That's shocking. Can't believe somebody won't take that on.