Nigelw Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Right, I do not essentially need this to be repaired as I have a brand new box under my bench, but after having 4 contradictory answers to this I want to throw this out to the masses. This is a steering shaft from a 4 bolt PAS box, it can clearly be seen where the seal runs it has become pitted and perished the seal. http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/dieseldog69/media/Rusty220913013_zps071e5307.jpg.html'> Now I do not doubt CwazyWabbit one bit when he said to get it ground out, welded up and an a new sealing face on it with a cylindrical grinder, but 3 other people have uttered mention of hair line cracking, warping of the shaft and the likes so for all the actual engineers out there, can this be refurbished? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Speedi-sleeve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_grieve Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 You could do as Cwazy Wabbit suggested but I would just stick a speedy sleeve on there if it really had to be repaired. I think in the UK with easy access to spares replacement would be the best option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Speedi sleeve is the easiest, cheapest route. Alternative is metal sprayed and reground wich is what I believe the better reconditioners do. There is nothing that can't be repaired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I'd try a sleeve too. Though to avoid the issue of stress-raisers from the damaged surface I'd shot-peen and polish it _before_ fitting the sleeve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 Ok looked into speedy sleeve and the only problem I can see with it is that the new sleeve would be thicker than the shaft slightly and would not pass back down through the needle rollers, so question is, could it be fitted the wrong way round so to speak? Ie, could a new seal be fitted in the box and then the shaft refitted and then the speedy sleeve knocked up and under the new seal? Or am I being too much like an old farmer in my thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Don't know the innards well enough, but what about that, but fit needle rollers, assemble box, fit speedisleeve, fit seal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 As you've pointed out, it would be impossible to assemble with a traditional sleeve. It's possible you could put it on the wrong way round - I guess ask the manufacturer! Metal spray and grinding is the only proper solution IMHO. However, it might be cheaper just to replace the shaft! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Grind, chrome plate, Grind again, then watch it last for ever... it'll cost more than your landy is worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Grind, chrome plate, Grind again, then watch it last for ever... it'll cost more than your landy is worth. There are a few places that do that process to motorcycle forks, and they weren't real silly money, was cheaper than the replacement parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 There are a few places that do that process to motorcycle forks, and they weren't real silly money, was cheaper than the replacement parts. I seem to remember a guy on here mentioning having the balls on his 101 front axle done and it not being silly expensive, now I am thinking on a whole new tack and wonder whether it would be worth a look into after the speedy sleeve and true costs for build up and grinding back? Maybe not, this thing is costing me enough as it is!!! Engineers tomorrow, see what they have in stock for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 Forgot to add this is where I am at so far. http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/dieseldog69/media/Rusty240913001_zps2909f631.jpg.html'> New seal going in to the bottom. http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/dieseldog69/media/Rusty240913009_zpse036563e.jpg.html'> Seal retainer and dust seal going in. http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/dieseldog69/media/Rusty240913011_zps5a1c2a53.jpg.html'> And cirlip holding it all together. http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/dieseldog69/media/Rusty240913016_zps4c898e12.jpg.html'> The only thing I can see being a slight issue is that the vulcanized steel plate dust seal is quite a tight fit on the shaft but I gauged it and the sleeve should just slip under it. http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/dieseldog69/media/Rusty240913003_zps106f700f.jpg.html'> We'll find out when I get the sleeve to fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Ah ha! I was at this stage a few months ago with a box in similar condition. I ended up fitting a good second hand box for sake of speed and simplicity. Depending on the depth of the scoring I feel it might be possible to clean the surface on on a cylindrical grinder, without removing too much to stop a new seal running happily on that surface. However as VB has said, grind, chrome, grind would be the correct way to effect this kind of repair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 I seem to remember a guy on here mentioning having the balls on his 101 front axle done and it not being silly expensive, Thats worth persuing. I have kept my old Chrome swivels, and it might be good to get them re-chromed. The Britpart teflon swivels that i fitted are wearing where the seal sits over night. They have patches of teflon following the line of the seal that have clearly gone thin ove the last 2-3 yearsn (i can see the metal underneath), so going back to chrome would seem sensible to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted September 26, 2013 Author Share Posted September 26, 2013 Ok lets look for chroming while I am out and about next week, I must admit, this turning up at different places asking for parts and services is doing wonders for my spoken Dutch, still getting flamed for writing in English on the Dutch forums though, but I always post a link to google translate for those that don't read English, seems only fair I got a price of €15/each for the needle roller bearings for the shaft,so I am actually thinking along the lines of replace bearings on the shaft and fit sleeve if possible then fit into housing. Not exactly got money to burn on this project but I am guessing that for the small costs in materials for each step I should only get as far as a recon box price, although chroming might whack the price a little but really would be worth it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Nigel, at a guess I'd say looking at it that the original shaft was only machined, if you were to have it machined back to remove the scores and then hard chromed and ground back to original diameter you would have a shaft that would outlive the rest of your Disco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I'd lob the dust seal and fit the oil lip seal part-way into the housing, so it ran on the good metal between the two wear paths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 I'd lob the dust seal and fit the oil lip seal part-way into the housing, so it ran on the good metal between the two wear paths. The trouble with the dust seal is that the main seal is soft and the dust seal is the steel plate holding it back under pressure, I did think about that though. Well decided to do some leg work on behalf of forum members who have hit this obstacle many times before to try and get a run down on what the costs/implications of each process are. Will keep you all posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 It is not unknown for these pitman shafts to shear in half with offroad impacts. I believe that here in OZ it is illegal to heat, weld or chrome high stressed steering componentry. And doesn't the process of chroming introduce a phenomenon(SP?) known as Hydrogen embrittlement ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 That's a very good point Bill, in the UK you're not allowed to weld certain steering components. I'm not sure if this extends to all steering components or what other processes are banned. Certainly worthy of some research, would also be a good idea for Nigel to check the rules in his neck of the woods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 That's a very good point Bill, in the UK you're not allowed to weld certain steering components. I'm not sure if this extends to all steering components or what other processes are banned. Certainly worthy of some research, would also be a good idea for Nigel to check the rules in his neck of the woods. Oh shizzle, here we go, this could take a while(cue random elevator music) and let me see if google translate can do better than last time with getting over the gumph in the legals here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 If they don't notice, it's all good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 If they don't notice, it's all good Perhaps you could do the honors elbekko??? After all I am a foreigner in your native land They might be suspicious of the lack of a leak if anything? After all it is a Land Rover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Well, there's this: http://www.wegcode.be/wetteksten/secties/kb/tech/321-art42 This bit is important for you: Aan de stuurorganen mag, behalve door de constructeur zelf, niet zijn gelast. De delen der stuurinrichting mogen koud noch warm worden vervormd. Translation: You can't weld on steering components, nor distort while hot nor cold. So restoring to original condition shouldn't be a problem I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 Can of worms I am thinking I am going to consult further with Kurt and Marc over this subject, probably a few beers in the café too. As engineers they should be able to fathom out the intricacies of whether or not building up would affect integrity of the shaft, would love to chrome it too but let's have some drinking and chatting over this subject to iron out the difficulties and finer details. HOLY COW!!! Brain fart time, grinding it back where the seal sits and fitting a sleeve to original diameter, then grind lip off the sleeve to original diameter, think I just worked it out for myself??????? Anyone think that is a good or bad idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.