Anderzander Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 ....... but I like rivets !? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Me too, in places Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 They have been hinting at this for some years now and there have been plenty of comments about the lack of profit owing to the manual build costs. The admission that the replacement won't be cheap sounds like they are moving the whole range up and away from it's roots. I do wonder how the JLR group will get on once there heritage has been killed off. I am looking forward to the possibilities for our favourite adaptable vehicle thought ! Lets try this one ? The pattern parts suppliers that we all buy parts from. Some of them are actual OEM suppliers. We can buy almost all parts of a Defender from these suppliers. So if you can't buy a new Defender from Land Rover, what's stopping companies building the vehicle we all want ? It might not be a new vehicle but most of us on here are already some way down the path of breathing new life into an existing vehicle. Another interesting development will be the Utility companies that use Defenders for their specialist vehicles. What will there solution be when they can't buy Defenders ? You never know what might come out of this, we might be pleasantly surprised ! Alan The Defender in its current guise is a poorly built, badly put together pile of poo, by a company with no sense of history,that lost interest in building rugged working type 4wds over 15 years ago. The only exclusive mechanical assembly on a Defender worth a damn is the LT230 transfercase. IMO the real Defender that many of us want is personified by the Foers Ibex, but with stronger diff/axle assemblies. There is currently a thread on General 4x4 Discussion on Pirate 4x4.com titled 'The Resurrection of modern 4x4s', apparently started by a Mitsubishi Boffin, asking forum members what they would like to see incorporated into a heavy duty high capability 4wd that is easy to modify,repair and maintain. The consensus so far, well actually a consensus of 2, them being Gremlin and I, is that the Foers Ibex fitted with selected components from the Mitsubishi parts bins would be the dogs danglies as well as a worthy replacement for the Defender. The only problem I see is that Mr Foers couldn't build them fast enough in his farm shed assembly plant, and might need to add a couple more sheds Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 The Defender in its current guise is a poorly built, badly put together pile of poo, by a company with no sense of history,that lost interest in building rugged working type 4wds over 15 years ago. The only exclusive mechanical assembly on a Defender worth a damn is the LT230 transfercase. IMO the real Defender that many of us want is personified by the Foers Ibex, but with stronger diff/axle assemblies. There is currently a thread on General 4x4 Discussion on Pirate 4x4.com titled 'The Resurrection of modern 4x4s', apparently started by a Mitsubishi Boffin, asking forum members what they would like to see incorporated into a heavy duty high capability 4wd that is easy to modify,repair and maintain. The consensus so far, well actually a consensus of 2, them being Gremlin and I, is that the Foers Ibex fitted with selected components from the Mitsubishi parts bins would be the dogs danglies as well as a worthy replacement for the Defender. The only problem I see is that Mr Foers couldn't build them fast enough in his farm shed assembly plant, and might need to add a couple more sheds Lol. Your right, trouble is the IBEX is low production. And JLR have a limited parts bit to draw from now. Personally, I'd go more radical than the IBEX. It's pie in the sky, but I'd use the turbine power source: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/jlr-develops-gas-turbine-tech Direct drive 4 electric motors, one on each wheel, like this: http://www.proteanelectric.com/en/ With a small battery to allow regenerative braking, power manipulation. This would have the potential to be phenomenally reliable and present an ultimately configurable platform. The chassis, and you would keep a chassis, would hold the key to safety all the required parts, sensors, etc, (which could be removed for developing world/military applications). LR need to develop the platform not the vehicle, that much is obvious. Cheers, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie64 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 aren't LR building a new engine factory here in UK, that will have to build Euro6 compatible engines, no reason why that can't go in the existing Defender. Euro 6 engines are a pain in the arse with all the emissions coolers and other faff like exhaust gas cooler, exhaust gas cooler cooler, exhaust gas cooler cooler cooler, exhaust gas heater (cause they cooled it too much) they would never be able to shoe horn all that carp in have you ever looked under the bonnet of say a mitsubishi L200? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sighnbox Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Well all I can say is glad I rebuilt completley my 1990 Defender and birthday today ant geting any younger and hope it will see me out so I won't have to worry about what they replace it with (as long as I can get parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Well all I can say is glad I rebuilt completley my 1990 Defender and birthday today ant geting any younger and hope it will see me out so I won't have to worry about what they replace it with (as long as I can get parts You'll always be able to get parts (of some description) they might be expensive (one day) so stock up now while they are cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Euro 6 engines are a pain in the arse with all the emissions coolers and other faff like exhaust gas cooler, exhaust gas cooler cooler, exhaust gas cooler cooler cooler, exhaust gas heater (cause they cooled it too much) they would never be able to shoe horn all that Ploppy Plop Plops in have you ever looked under the bonnet of say a mitsubishi L200? Nope, Eyro 6 is here & whatever LR replace the Defender with will have to comply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 If the market no longer accepts the rugged simplicity of a Series type vehicle, why make one? Something like a Suzuki Jimny? Just look how many of them you see on the road! Even the current models are mechanically simple & easy to fix. The construction is pretty much a monocock style body bolted to a ladder chassis - it has a lot in common with a Land Rover - and it's easy to see how you could make a Defender style vehicle the same way. If it's economic for Suzuki to make a Jimny, it could be economic for Land Rover to make something similar but 25% bigger. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Something like a Suzuki Jimny? Just look how many of them you see on the road! Agreed! And also look at the money they hold... I bought one for the much better hard ~4 years ago, £1900 for a W plate, sold it 3 years later for £1700, £100/year for motoring is cheap! Only thing to go wrong was a swivel pin bearing, £30 for a rebuild kit, and welded two brackets back onto the exhaust. I like Jimny's a lot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sighnbox Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 FIAT PANDA 4X4 WHAT A CAR.............Had one the older fiat panda's 4x4 with double sun roof, bull bar, spot lights etc etc Brought it from Diss car auction for £50 just as a run around to find anouther car. I ended up keeping it and it went thro every MOT at no cost for SEVEN YEARS ...We didnt think our luck could hold so decided the poor Panda's time had come to be sold......SODS LAW sat in Roy's of wroxham car park disscusing it going eating a hot cornish...just got out and BANG .......lets just say a lady driver reversed in to the door and put a dent in it The insurance company sent me to LEADERS boady works place "oooo we cant match that paint mate" and so they offerd me £150 ......"your joking mate just look on Ebay these are cult cars now see what there making" BINGO came back at me with a £500 offer and I could KEEP THE CAR ... I brought a £2 dent puller and guess what pulled the dent streight out and couldnt tell it had been there .............Put it on Ebay and it made slightly under £600........Now thats a car cost £50 had SEVEN YEARS trouble/cost free motering and made over £1000 proffit on it ........and it went like stink the wheels used to spin when you put your foot down in first ...cheap tax as well........ I regret selling it and would have anouther just as a buzz around car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Fiat are an underrated car maker. I've had some cracking ones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sighnbox Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Was a great 4x4 car all the back seats used to fold completely flat as well to make the back like a van could get some big stuff in there. Very nippy and quick was amazing fun in the summer flying round the norfolk lanes both the sun roofs open used to stick to the road like S*** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco_al Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 has anyone started building a 130 as a hearse to carry the last one off the production line yet??? defender owners could line the route from coventry to gaydon as a ceremonial tribute... will be a sad day, true, but times move on, and unfortunately the defender is a casualty of the ever tightening laws and regs coming from europe. as we all know, defenders will not disappear from the roads, it will probably take another 67 years before they are all gone, lets just hope that jlr listen to what buyers want, and don't pander to the "soft roader" brigade and make it too, um, girly?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 has anyone started building a 130 as a hearse to carry the last one off the production line yet??? as we all know, defenders will not disappear from the roads, it will probably take another 67 years before they are all gone, lets just hope that jlr listen to what buyers want, and don't pander to the "soft roader" brigade and make it too, um, girly?? Thanks for the laugh! 67 years? The way Defenders have been slapped together without any attention paid to corrosion prevention, most would be lucky to last 6 or 7 years in any sort of damp environment. LandRovers must be the only 4wd brand, where chassis are regarded as consumables ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weasel_110 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 We are lucky peeps to have had the pleasure and honour of owning and driving a Motoring Icon....http://www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/motoring/8654/land-rover-the-end-of-a-legend.html Just like British motorcycles, you have to love em to get em right! And don't forget...."Landy's have a habit of going on forever. It’s said that 75 per cent of the two million built so far are still on the road. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Something like a Suzuki Jimny? Just look how many of them you see on the road! Si Well, maybe, sort of. The Jimny is still very much a car, with small wheels and car interior etc, and it is really too small for much other than personal transport. However, there is something about the design which is appealing. Maybe a lack of complexity and some thought to the fact the car will sometimes encounter rocks and branches. Plus it's obviously not trying to be a sports car, so no one will have unrealistic expectation of it. LR could definitely take some cues from the design, except make it a truck first! I went to a funeral today at which a large contingent from the four wheel drive movement were in attendance. It struck me that serious off-roaders are now built privately and factories make fairly soft off-roaders. EVERYTHING that is used off-road in anger now has lifts, body armour, bigger-than-standard tyres and bits chopped off the corners. Most have roll-cages, after-market lockers and winches. I guess it's always going to be cheaper to buy pretty much any old clonker (or even quite new vehicles) and modify it than it would be to buy something new from the factory. I'm not sure there are that many factory options available, unless you include military wagons. It seems there is a genuine gap in the market. Land Rover are probably the best-placed manufacturer to close this gap. I believer their modern drive trains (like Disco 4) are fairly robust. Design from scratch for big rubber, out of the way bodywork, sturdy corners, room for a roll-cage etc. and keep the toys to a minimum. A simple design that isn't aimed at sports car drivers and there will be a market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncmc Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 About a month ago, Jaguar Land Rover announced that it was to build a new range of lightweight aluminium sports cars at Solihull. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/10297447/Jaguar-Land-Rover-to-create-1700-UK-jobs-to-build-sports-cars.html When I heard that story I suspected that it wouldn't be long before we heard of the end of the Defender. Lode Lane doesn't have space for an extra production line so one of the current ones has to go.....and it was bound to be the old Defender. This will be the real reason, not the emissions. The interesting bit, is could the new Defender replacement be based on the lightweight Jag? Maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncmc Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Another link, with a bit about an aluminium base, and this could be the base for the base for both Jaguars and Land Rovers. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24018350 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 I guess it's all a case of horses for courses. Personally I don't want an "off-road monster", I want something that can haul a 3.5t flatbed across a muddy field or showground, and then cruise at the legal-limit (and a bit) for the next couple of hundred miles without making me deaf. It should have enclosed rear 'working' loadspace [suitable to take sacks of cement, a couple of pallets, a pile of logs or a few muddy dogs] and be hoseable-out afterwards. I only need a driver's and a passenger seat. Features-wise: a decent heater, electrically-heated mirrors/windows, a reversing camera (until you've used one of these you can't believe how much easier it makes when hitching up a trailer alone and in the dark) a truly big battery for all the radios, and something like a remote/timer-controlled Eberspacher interior-heater to make those cold winter-morning startups less stressful. Air-suspension is ++good, specially for towing. If LR did a 3-door Disco Commercial with solid side-windows, bulkhead between the loadspace and the driver's space, truly poverty-spec trim and none of the stupid stuff like leather seats, satnavs, cruise-control, aircon, alloy-wheels, stereo... and did it as a petrol V8, I'd lease one in a flash! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Twig Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Just sayin - rubbish... I am sick of all the people on boards like this one ranthing about how LR has lost its routes, they will never buy one, blah blah We can all rant as much as we like, but I reckon over 90% of the enthusiasts on this board will never wander into a showroom and slap the readies down for a brand new one. So for the real LR fanatics, this makes FA difference, we have probably at least 20-30 years of already existing chassis and engines to play with The majority of the LR community are only just starting to get over the Td5 = elecktrickery = devils spawn routines. So TBH, who cares. By the times the "new Defender" filters down to the likes of us, there will be no oil left anyway, and the ice caps will ahve melted, and we'll be dodging polarbears in Kent, and driving at all will have become as socially acceptable as smoking inside in an STD swapping club. In the mean time, I'm sticking with my SIII which will keep going until the oil runs out, at which point I'll be dead. I stopped caring about the next generation at the point at which twerk entered the OED... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh NZ Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I stopped caring about the next generation at the point at which twerk entered the OED... God I wish the forum had a like button for things like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakmaster Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Oh Look!! Citroen are going to make the Defender Replacement http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/news/115270/new-citroen-cactus-concept-makes-its-debut?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Citroen Globalisation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangie46 Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Tbh I don't think JLR will replace the defender once they stop production I think that will be it, It's all down to money in the end and I don't think they actually sell enough defenders now to make money on it, plus they have the likes of the freelancer, disco, RR, RR sport and that other funny looking thing they have, at the end of the day it's about profit and that's where the money is in the SUV market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I have heard it said that it's not Land Rover who want to cease the Defender production but the insurance companies that have to pay out for the eurobox that has a coming together with a Defender. The cost of repairing the eurobox is generally sky high compared with the often nil repair cost to the Defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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