Worrying changes to MOT rules

[heath robinson]

There's been a post on the capri forum I frequent which contains some fairly worrying news, especially for those intending on getting a Q-plate - it seems they're planning on doing away with them in October, along with VIC checks, so no more re-building cat-C write-offs!

As I say, the info isn't first hand, but the source is trustworthy (Nial Diamond the OP, not me!) so have a read.

I stuck it in here, as this seems the most likely place for those most affected to be mooching around.

http://www.capripower.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/34417-new-mot-specs-from-october/page__pid__335292#entry335292

Worrying!

[Daan]

I cant read this, as I am not registered, You think you could paste the text?

Daan

[ejparrott]

likewise!

[CwazyWabbit]

hi all ,was speaking to a good friend of mine earlier who has just finished hi "last refresher course at vosa ,turns out theres gonna be a few changes in order to bring us in line with the EU!!!!

listed below are a few of the main changes which will take place in october.....

Dash lights (not usually capri related) IE: abs ,airbag ,etc if it is noticable that the bulb has been removed it will fail but from october as long as the light is not on it will pass .

emmissions ,part of the emissions test has been changed to a higher level to match EU policies

rear seat belts if fitted must work but from october ,one of them can be removed if not working without causing the car to fail.

just a few of the changes ,will add to it over the weeekend ,but a further couple of changes will be..........

no vic checks after october a total loss will stay off the road!!!!!

no more Q plates will be issued

vosa and the dsa will be combined and called dsvo

the catergories regarding damaged cars will change in order to stop the cars returning to the road

like some of the changes but others like a total loss on say a stolen recovered car with a damaged bumper being destroyed ,well !!!!

also the computers used on the mot test which are now direct to vosa will no longer be used as it will all be done on line via a seccure connection (vosa currently have t supply the computers ,but not anymore )

and lastly the refresher courses that the testers have to undertake will now all be done on line.

so is this good.......or bad news for us

Changing the browser user agent to googlebots allows you to view without being registered.

[CwazyWabbit]

Had a little google and there was a consultaion about changing the VIC https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/191536/vic-summary-responses.pdf

and http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18873160

Interestingly out of over 700,000 VIC's performed only 38 ringers have been found and I also didn't realise that no attempt is made to check a vehicle is roadworthy during a VIC

[CwazyWabbit]

This page states it's October 2015 that the VIC gets scrapped https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fraud-check-cut-set-to-save-motorists-money

[CwazyWabbit]

Last but not least the following is taken from another site (http://www.abpclub.co.uk/bodyshop-news.php?story=Write-offs---government-Q--A-on-abolition-of-VIC-check-114377) and is a Q&A about the abolition of the VIC

Write-offs - government Q & A on abolition of VIC check

Instant Access to UK Bodyshop News with your credit cardQ: What is happening with the Vehicle Identity Check (VIC) scheme?

A: Following a lengthy period of review and consultation by the Department for Transport (DfT) the Minister has decided to abolish the Vehicle Identity Check (VIC) scheme. The intention is to abolish the scheme in October 2015.

Q: Why has the decision to abolish VIC been taken?

A: At the time of its inception VIC was aimed at deterring the crime of replacing the identity of a stolen car with that of a cheaply bought total loss (write off) car of the same type.

This is commonly known as ringing.

Insurance companies operate within a Code of Practice for categorising write-offs.

The VIC scheme applied to all written off cars in salvage categories A, B or C.

Experience has shown that this has placed a burden on a large number of owners who have opted to retain the salvage (i.e. the car) because relatively minor damage can result in repairs costing more than the value of the vehicle. For many motorists, it has become an unnecessary procedure, particularly when a vehicle has remained in the hands of the same keeper for several years and the market value is low.

Q: What will the savings to the motorist/industry/taxpayer be with the abolishment of the VIC scheme?

A: The current test fee for a VIC check is £41. If the scheme continues it is likely that a substantial fee increase would be required in line with current expenditure levels. On top of the VIC fee the motorist will incur fuel and time costs.

In the future it is likely that the choice of DVSA location for tests to be undertaken would be liable to reduce, meaning some people then need to travel further. The abolishing of the scheme will mean that there will not continue to be a burden on the motorist, especially owners of low value vehicles, of having to have a VIC to confirm the identity of the vehicle. VIC checks are paid for by consumers and are not supported out of general taxation.

Q: Why has the scheme not been successful?

A: Since the start of the scheme in April 2003 less than 40 so-called ringers have been detected from around 916,000 checks completed over the 11 years to 2013.

Data provided from the British Crime Survey has demonstrated that vehicle theft continues to fall and has been doing so since the 1990s, prior to the VIC scheme being introduced. The deterrent effect of the VIC scheme is difficult to quantify due to the way the police record vehicle crime related offences. Additionally vehicle technology and the processes adopted by police forces to track down organised vehicle crime are far better than they were at the inception of the VIC scheme.

About 75% of the checks were undertaken on cars which were 7 years or older, written-off because the cost of even small repairs were greater than the very low market value of the vehicle, often meaning that the cost of the check fell on the less well-off members of society.

Q: What was the purpose of VIC when it started?

A: The VIC scheme was introduced in April 2003 with the purpose of deterring the crime of vehicle ringing.

Typically this involved the theft of a car of significant value, which is then given the identity of a similar car (make, model, colour etc) which has been the subject of an insurance write-off. The written-off car is obtained cheaply; it identity (Vehicle Identity Number (VIN) and Vehicle Registration Mark (VRM)) is then transferred to a higher value stolen car which, now apparently genuine, can be sold at market price. This is known as vehicle ringing.

The check was designed to prevent vehicle ringing by confirming that the car presented for check is legitimate.

Q: How did the check reduce crime?

A: When a car is written off or declared scrapped due to substantial damage to bodywork the V5C registration certificate is surrendered to the insurance company. If the car is repaired with the intention of putting it back on the road, DVLA will not issue a new V5C logbook until the car passes a VIC. If the identity of the car is in doubt it will fail the check. This meant that DVLA will not issue a new V5C logbook or vehicle tax disc for the vehicle.

Q: How can I tell if a VIC is required?

A: A VIC is required for all cars notified to the Driver Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) as written off (category A, B or C) and returning to the road.

Since 7th April 2003 DVLA have kept a record of all cars that require a VIC check. You can contact the DVLA for advice on whether the car requires a VIC test

Q: How are Vehicle Identity Checks made and who does them?

A: VICs are undertaken by the Driver Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) in Great Britain and by The Driver and Vehicle Agency (DVA) in Northern Ireland on behalf of the DfT. The check will compare the car presented against information held by DVLA such as the chassis number, make, model, and colour and engine number. Other components may also be checked to confirm the age and identity of the car. The inspection will also compare the record of previous accident damage with evidence of the repair.

Q: What are we going to replace VIC with?

A: The vehicle crime element is now largely dealt with by modern vehicle technology that has improved vehicle security over the 10 years since the inception of the VIC scheme. This is demonstrated by the very low number of vehicles that have been discovered to be rung. Various options to modify the scheme were explored but no viable filters could be put in place without over complicating matters and imposing greater burdens on some customers.

The Department has committed to investigating further with the Home Office and industry what, if anything, will replace VIC.

Q: Is there any other work you are doing connected with written-off vehicles?

A: We have contacted a number of stakeholders to consider a number of issues further with them before the October 2015 abolition of VIC.

These issues include:

* considering a statutory basis for the insurance industrys code of practice about written-off vehicles;

* information for purchasers/ consumers related to previously written-off vehicles;

* vehicle registration documentation

* considering measures related to very severely damaged vehicles (including category Bs)

Q: Where does the VIC scheme apply?

A; It is currently in operation across the United Kingdom, with checks done in Great Britain by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency and Northern Ireland by the Driver and Vehicle Agency. We want to ensure a Northern Ireland perspective is included in the issues for further consideration

Q: How will we prevent vehicle ringing in the future?

A: Since 2003 it has not been demonstrated that the scheme has not done what it set out to do. The Department will work closely with its stakeholders to establish if anything is required in the future.

Q: What happens to cars that already have a VIC marker?

A: The Department will be considering further with DVLA and industry how VIC markers will be treated during the period up to abolition. The current position is that cars with a VIC marker will continue to require a VIC to remove the marker until October 2015.

Q: What will happen to outstanding VIC failures when VIC is abolished?

A: Any vehicles that have a VIC inspection and fail it before the abolition will be treated as they are now. A registration certificate will not be issued until it can be demonstrated that the car is not a rung vehicle. The process already in place will continue until the scheme is abolished. The Department will be considering this further with stakeholders during the period up to abolition.

Q: Will VIC markers stop being added prior to abolition?

A: The Department will be considering this with stakeholders during the period up to abolition.

Q: How soon before VIC ceases will DVSA stop taking applications?

A: The Department will be considering this with DVSA and industry during the period up to abolition.

Q: How will I know that my written-off vehicle is roadworthy following repairs when VIC is abolished?

A: It was perceived that the VIC scheme was to do with roadworthiness.

The scheme was never intended, or ever has been, used as a means to determine roadworthiness.

During the Departments consultation concerns were expressed that the roadworthiness and crashworthiness of rebuilt written-off vehicles should be subject to checking.

The Department is committed to investigating this further with industry.

Q: Will abolishing VIC make it easier to get written-off vehicles back on the road?

A: Yes, this will avoid waiting for an appointment for the VIC inspection to beundertaken, which can have a lead time of up to 6 weeks. However, the Department will be considering further the processes for ensuring that the car has been repaired and is roadworthy prior to the issuing of the V5C.

[missingsid]

Thanks CwazyWabbit for adding the content.

So unless I am reading this incorrectly,

VIC removal does not stop the return of lightly damsged cars to the road and the other changes are to reduce the strength of our MOT to the lower level of EU tests (except emmissions)??

The only unknown is the scrapping of Q plates to be managed how?

Marc

[Daan]

So this is mainly to stop ringers getting on the road. I did think that the VIC check is a bit too easy: when I did it there was some woman who knew nothing about cars wrote down an engine number and a chassis number, after I told her where these are located. You could get any car through this check, including the most bodged ringer, so it kind of makes sense. It also mentiones getting rid of Q plates, but no mention about the IVA test. Maybe this means that an IVA test doesn't mean a Q-plate, which is what most people stops doing an IVA test in the first place.

Daan

[miketomcat]

Can't see how they can abolish Q plates for kit cars for production yes because you have something to base an age on. My ibex for example is a new shell/chassis. D plate rear axle, brakes, steering and t-box. K plate engine, gearbox and front axle. So how could you put an age related plate on that.

Mike

[qwakers]

on the current points system obviously that would end up on a Q, but with that option gone i suspect it would be put on the year with the highest points accumulated

[elbekko]

Or the year you built it.

[ejparrott]

Miniature traction engines used to be allotted Q plates, now they get age related plates, so I think it's been on its way for a while

[CwazyWabbit]

I couldn't find any references to q plates being scrapped, however it is a difficult term to search for

[Jon White]

DVLA have very rarely issued Q plates in recent years. In fact I already thought that they had stopped issuing them.

These days depending on the components in use they either issue a new registration or an age related one. My mate built a caterham esque kit car recently using quite a number of used components (engine, gearbox, rear axle, front suspension etc). It was IVA tested and DVLA issued it with a modern 12 plated registration.

The one I wonder about would be requests for re-bodying a vehicle with an unmodified chassis (eg you bolt a fibreglass shell onto an unmodified range rover chassis and running gear) as at present these do not require an IVA test, and are dealt with via a VIC check. Does this mean that in the future DVLA are just going to allow re-bodies with a check, or are they going to force everything down the IVA route?

Jon

[heath robinson]

Brilliant, good sleuthing Mr Wabbit! A better reaction than my immediate panic! That's set my mind at ease, I couldn't see them scrapping every vehicle that the insurance vultures have written off. After all, that's just a financial decision, not actually based on safety considerations.

[Daan]

DVLA have very rarely issued Q plates in recent years. In fact I already thought that they had stopped issuing them.

These days depending on the components in use they either issue a new registration or an age related one. My mate built a caterham esque kit car recently using quite a number of used components (engine, gearbox, rear axle, front suspension etc). It was IVA tested and DVLA issued it with a modern 12 plated registration.

The one I wonder about would be requests for re-bodying a vehicle with an unmodified chassis (eg you bolt a fibreglass shell onto an unmodified range rover chassis and running gear) as at present these do not require an IVA test, and are dealt with via a VIC check. Does this mean that in the future DVLA are just going to allow re-bodies with a check, or are they going to force everything down the IVA route?

Jon

Rarely issueing q plates is mainly the result of people trying to wing it; ie use a standard registration of something close to what you have, or the donor vehicle. The amount of posts of people on here trying to get out of iva and a q plate proves that imo. a new reg is only allowed currently if you use 80% or so new parts. Maybe the q plate sentence is meant for written off and repaired cars, and no more q plates are given to these.

[CwazyWabbit]

Brilliant, good sleuthing Mr Wabbit! A better reaction than my immediate panic! That's set my mind at ease, I couldn't see them scrapping every vehicle that the insurance vultures have written off. After all, that's just a financial decision, not actually based on safety considerations.

No probs boss, I like to try to find the root information to these things as so often things get twisted as the message is passed along (sometimes intentionally, other times not)

[FridgeFreezer]

So, is this in fact pretty much all good news?

[Team Idris]

We, the British public, are not used to 'good news' from government

It'll be offset by something like; printing off all your E mails and posting them to MI5 every April?

But so far, free tax and no MOT is working for me on the old S1.

the general trend seems to be to wait until it goes wrong, then check you are legit. (HSE incident, road accident etc). But it was interesting that our old Fiesta failed a French MOT because the rear tyres were bigger than the build list said?

[tacr2man]

So this is mainly to stop ringers getting on the road. I did think that the VIC check is a bit too easy: when I did it there was some woman who knew nothing about cars wrote down an engine number and a chassis number, after I told her where these are located. You could get any car through this check, including the most bodged ringer, so it kind of makes sense. It also mentiones getting rid of Q plates, but no mention about the IVA test. Maybe this means that an IVA test doesn't mean a Q-plate, which is what most people stops doing an IVA test in the first place.

Daan

That must have been a long time ago as its much more involved than that currently , the vehicle is taken away from public view and several items are checked , also the vehicle has to be in a safe and drivable condition , otherwise you can end up with immediate prohibition ! But DVSA want rid , to concentrate on core responsibilities , also the ins cos were not playing the game , and were using wrong criteria , governed by financial parameters !

[Phil Hancock]

Mine was issued with a 1996 reg in 2007.