zim Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Hi, I am looking at getting my truck replated (if possible) back to it's proper weight limit. Which is about 4 - 4.5 tonne. (Ford F250). Reading on the internet, it appears that a standard 110 can tow a 4 tonne trailer if using coupled brakes. What i'd like to find is a link to the dvla or vosa that explains what can tow what or how is it known ? If i replate my truck back to what it should be, it'll be as a passenger M1. But looking at the iva manual it says : 10. A vehicle which is capable of towing must have a technically permissible towing mass which conforms wi th the information below Where a vehicle is capable of towing a trailer fitted with a service braking system , the technically permissible maximum towable mass of the vehicle must not exceed either of: th e technically permissible mass of the towing vehicle, (OR, for off- road vehicles 1.5 times that mass (See note 3) 3500Kg Where a vehicle is only capable of towing a trailer which is not fitted with a service braking system, then the technically permissible towable mass of the vehicle must not exceed either of; half of the mass of the towing vehicle in running order, 750kg Which to me means 3.5tonne. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 If its designed to tow a certain weight then that's what ultimately decided if it can tow that weight... The LR 110 manual states that the 110 is good for towing 4t with a coupled brake system... that's how I interpret the statement "Technically Permissible" i.e. the manufacturer says it can, so it can.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 What, exactly, is a coupled brake system? My 109 is plated to a max gross train weight of 6710kg with a max vehicle weight of 2710kg. I presume that means that I can tow 4 tonne (licence permitting). There's no reference to brakeing systems on the plate. It's a 1981 vehicle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Coupled brakes means the tow vehicle is fitted with a vacuum or airbrake system that operates the trailers brakes, the tow vehicle standard fit hydraulic brakes are coupled to the vac pump or air compressor so both vehicle & trailer begin braking at the same moment the brake pedal is operated, the trailers brakes are plumb for vac or air similar to hgv brakes. Not overrun brakes where there is no physical brake connection between trailer & tow vehicle like normal up to 3500kg max weight trailers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 So how would it work with an import ? In the states my truck has a towing capacity of about 6 tonne. GCWR of about 9 or 10t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 How much work is it to fit those brakes? They sound like a better plan than the standard brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 It being an import probably moves the goal posts a little... as it probably depends on the market/country it was originally designed and built for... i.e the USA not UK spec. meaning the legislation it had to comply with. It might be worth ringing a Ford commercial vehicle garage somewhere they might be able to shed a little light on the topic for you... What does the plate currently say? 3.5t? Maybe something to do with this... "up plateing" http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/small_business/commercial_transport/vans_and_lorries/replate_your_goods_vehicle_to_change_the_weights_it_can_carry/7893.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 This site may be of use to you , some F250 dont have as big a tow limit as you may think ! http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp?make=Ford&model1=F-250%20Single%20Cab Once you get above 3500kg all sorts of different regs come into play , depending on year of manufacture , including year of trailer . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 & your licence to drive entitlement comes into play & the drivers age I.e. Must be over 18 for certain vehicle categories As to the cost of adding coupled brake system the vehicle maker or specialist company should be able to give you a price, suspect it'll be in the very high hundreds. Or more to do a vehicle & matching trailer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 your truck in the USA would use an electronic trailer brake system for towing that amount, not sure its entirely legal to use an electronic trailer brake system in the UK. These electronic systems are adjustable for braking effort depending on the weight you have on the trailer. you would need to run coupled brakes i.e. air or vacuum to tow anything over 3.5t, also i would suspect a C+E liscence (not sure without looking that up) would be required as you CANNOT tow a trailer with a mass of over 3.5T with a standard B+E no matter what anyone says (and some poeple do think they can tow more) can i ask why you need to up plate it? you have to use a larger tow coupler too, the 50mm ball is only rated to 3.5t max! lots of red tape for a vehicle which in one country can tow a load and one can only tow 3.5t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Pin coupling is only 5t isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Pin & the NATO pintle/76mm ring are rated at 5 tonne only if they are secured by 4 8.8HT bolts/nuts. all UK ball & pin hitches with 2 bolt attachment are 3.5 tonne rated max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSD Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 After a quick glance through the IVA guidance, the only provision I find for towing more than 3500kg means testing your truck as an N2 HGV! your truck in the USA would use an electronic trailer brake system for towing that amount, not sure its entirely legal to use an electronic trailer brake system in the UK. These electronic systems are adjustable for braking effort depending on the weight you have on the trailer. I looked this up a while back and found something from VOSA, where they explicitly said that electric braking systems were legal, but that the in-cab adjustment systems are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 How much roughly is it you want to tow? Do you have C+E? What sort of trailer do you want to pull? What are the MOT rules on trailers over 3.5T MAM? AFAIK towing over 750kg with a vehicle over 3.5TMAM requires a full artic license. A triaxle ifor has an axle capacity of 4.5T but I don't know if ifor would plate it to this. Even if you fit power brakes you would still need to re plate it. ( just using ifor for example) Will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Trailers over 3500kg come under plating and testing regs , etc see here http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/additional/files/vehicle-type-approval/trailers/advice-for-companies-manufacturing-trailers.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Thanks for the replies. The reason to upplate it - i've currently got very little payload. And anyone else with a similar F250 / F350, 4x4, crew cab, with 6ft bed will be in the same situation. I didn't realise it until i put my truck on a weighbridge. Quite honestly, i don't think they should be able to plate these trucks to 3.5 tonne at IVA. So my reasoning is, whilst ( if !) i can get it's gross weight increased, then can i also possibly tow a heavier trailer? I realize that in the US they use electronic braking on the trailer, i know some 5th wheels here do the same. I'm not sure on the full regs over here though. With regards to license, i'm in the process now of doing my C followed by C+E. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 What's it like doing the C and C+E test? I've been pondering doing it myself, I've got a good-for-nothing post '97 B+E license at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 they are the most difficult tests you will ever have to do... 100x harder than the car and motorbike tests. not only due to the fact the vehicle is more difficult to maneuver but also because the examiners expect a much higher standard. however, if i can pass them anyone can lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I looked into the electric breaking kit for a tandem axle 5th wheel horse trailer I was building, whole set up for axles and the box of tricks was £1300+ change. Zim, I know what you mean about the first time on a weigh bridge after I took the brand new D3 on ours at work, 2780kg curb weight with a full tank of diesel and it was only a 5 seater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Add another 650kg onto that weight I've been to two different weigh bridges to check as well. Not sure on the C & C+E as not been yet, i'm doing it with a training company from Crewe so will find out. Looking at about £1000 for each test / course. + Medical + Theory. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 When I looked at getting a 5th wheel caravan I was told the electric brakes are not allowed in the UK so they get converted to pneumatic on import. Also some are over 3.5tonne and they work on the basis of towing some carrying some which I guess is ok so long as gtw and axle weight is ok. I think for what you want to do you would need to rate it as hgv. U.S. imports are usually down plated so people can use them as cars. I would contact the dsa for official guidance. C+e is ok, I did mine 4x4h lessons then test on Friday. Don't forget if you want to do commercial theres cpc too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Does this mean your payload is 70 kg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Don't want to do commercial, it's the ability to drive larger vehicles i'm interested in. I can't even drive a 7.5t hire truck for moving house, for example! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSD Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 When I looked at getting a 5th wheel caravan I was told the electric brakes are not allowed in the UK This from DfT seems to contradict that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Good to know, it does say upto 3500kg but doesn't tell you what happens above 3500kg. A lot of the American 5th wheelers are over 3500kg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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