Nigelw Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I have always been skeptical of the Adblu theory, but it went ahead with the pressures from GVT I have had a little read up on this as one of my mates is getting an old Volvo truck rebuilt for him by the horse transport firm he works for, why? The cost of the Adblu and the problems they are experiencing getting supplies when they need them, the tanks on the trucks are not big enough for the distances they do, and even then, the running costs of the Adblu trucks is actually higher than the regular old diesels from 20yrs ago, they lack the power of the older trucks too and some of the most recent editions with their auto boxes are horrendous on fuel, so bad that Dave had to check 3X on the way from Netherlands to Portugal to see if the diesel tank had a leak, and then running out of adblue sent the truck into a rough running POS that drank even more diesel. Is Adblu really the future of diesel technology? And if so, are owners of the new range of "bluetec" fully aware of the extra costs associated with running a diesel? Is petrol looking like the best bet for buyers of new vehicles? I read up a little here Cant find it now but there was a piece from an owner of a Merc who had a surprise €1400 extra to pay at the 25,000 km service to have the adblu topped up EURO6 what a F###ing con Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 The premium I used to drive was euro 5. The ad blue tank was about 40 litres and you paid between 50ppl and 100ppl depending how you bought it. I cant remember how long that would last but I guess 2000 litres of diesel? We didn't drag mega heavy loads and the 450 12 sp auto did around 10.5mpg. Getting it was hit and miss and some drivers claim to just pee in it. That said we had a ferry trailer dragged in behind a 1992 scania so maybe there's something in what you say. Looked really nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I had to look up what Adblu was.... Thankfully can't see it affecting us 200TDi owners! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I buy it in bulk - I have a 5,000 gallon tank in the yard - though it's not for use as diesel exhaust fluid. It is used for treating tree stumps to stop fungal rot of future crops, it's just an aquaeous urea solution at about 35% concentration. Certainly doesn't cost that much but then we have a central supply contract and as an organisation will buy many tens of thousands of gallons a year. It's also incredibly corrosive! And for gods sake don't get it on your hands, the blue dye is very effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyNissanPrairie Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Diesel is dead. Dual mass flywheels, fragile high pressure injection systems without sulphur to lubricate them, diesel particulate filters, egr valves feeding engines dirty oily sludge, failing turbos, and adblue all in an effort to try and clean up an inherently dirty means of combustion. Needed a large estate for work, bought a petrol Volvo, too many issues with long term diesel ownership. Poor MPG but that advantage with diesel is wiped out the first time it needs an injector. I'm dreading the inevitable big bills with my TDCI Transit when it eats its own fuel pump/system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I can't see there being enough petrol about to get rid of diesel. You chuck a load of crude into a cracker and get of all sorts out. I guess you can cross synthesize? They loved petrol cars back in the day because there weren't large scale users of that product until then, and it's dangerous stuff. But having said that, ships are moving away from black oil, so maybe they'll move to a refined diesel type product? That'll throw in some confusion! I think trucks will move to a point where there is a two foot thick scrubbing plant behind the cab. It looks like USA and EU expectations will continue to rise, and adding stuff isn't going to do it. It's CAT and filter time. With re-gen batteries as well,a tractor unit that was 5 tonne will probably be 6 tonne? In 20 years time I doubt you will be able to take diesel cars into major cities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 For big trucks, I'd say the hydrogen fuel cell technology is probably the best bet. Small, quickly refilled, and electric motors so plenty of torque to get moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 I can't see there being enough petrol about to get rid of diesel. You chuck a load of crude into a cracker and get of all sorts out. I guess you can cross synthesize? They loved petrol cars back in the day because there weren't large scale users of that product until then, and it's dangerous stuff. But having said that, ships are moving away from black oil, so maybe they'll move to a refined diesel type product? That'll throw in some confusion! It looks like USA and EU expectations will continue to rise, and adding stuff isn't going to do it. It's CAT and filter time. With re-gen batteries as well,a tractor unit that was 5 tonne will probably be 6 tonne? In 20 years time I doubt you will be able to take diesel cars into major cities. But that is the reality isn't it, the ever higher expectations of the powers that be, I think they are looking at things from the wrong angle, they are looking to clean up emissions, but that is only half the battle, the reduction in the need for the generation in these emissions might be a more realistic strategy? I did read somewhere that Paris is going to ban all diesels by 2020, that's only 5yrs away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 What happened to co2 emissions? A few years ago diesel was pushed due to much less co2 emission than petrol. now the focus is Nox emissions in citys. They probably want diesel in the country side and petrol in citys, to bring down both co2 and Nox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 It's all driven by the motor manufacturers, and a capitalist mindset. Manufacturers, if they just made cars/trucks to work well, then they wouldn't be making back the massive fortunes that they have invested in the development of engines, chassis design,manufacturing, safety etc So..... they have to add in all these things that make people want them (techinical gizmos) and pressure governments into introducing laws that make things far more complicated than they need to be, in order to justify the eventual sales prices. They do this by threatening to move production abroad. It is also to stave off the much, much cheaper competition from the likes of China, where they do just make cars and not mobile branches of dixons, but simply don't have the money, technical expertise or market share over to here to make it a worthwhile proposition developing all the complicated engine/emission management 'solutions', so they are effectively forced out of the market. It is also part of the reason 200 or so 'scientists' out their name on that climate change report a few years back, just to give the EU leverage to put in place 'green' laws. Or is that just me being cynical? Possibly a little, but there is some truth in there I am sure. BTW, no I am not a communist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Not only are paris banning diesels the UK are proposing reducing the speed limit on the M1 between nottingham and derby to 60 as they believe this significantly reduces pollution from diesels which they are blaming for places like derby not meeting it's air quality targets. Which will be depressing. However seeing as they're dropping the speed limit to 60 they're clearly not blaming any of it on lorries that can only do 56 in the first place. They are also building several freight rail terminals around the country with the aim to get freight from the coast to nearer the consumer by rail which is less emissions per mile per tonne than on lorries. Of course a lorry still has to get it from rail depot to consumer but someone must have crunched the numbers? I'm all for freight on the rails people on the roads personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Bowie: I don't think all this emissions stuff is driven by the manufacturers, it's a huge pain for them, makes their products more expensive & less reliable. It's driven partly by science but unfortunately all too often by green types who don't actually understand fully what they're talking about, hence why the goalposts seem to move as something is deemed to be bad, then banned after lobbying, then some new thing is deemed to be the problem and the old thing is perhaps discovered to be not as bad as everyone thought, etc, etc. Hence why we've gone from improving MPG (because the oil was going to run out) to banning lead in petrol to catalytic converters (resulting in worse MPG) to taxing CO2 to fitting diesel particulate filters to Adblue to now deciding maybe petrol is much nicer than diesel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I agree it's not entirely that, but the SMMMT have a lot to answer for if you ask me .... I would love to know what a modern petrol engine would do mpg-wise in an old land rover... My guess is pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Not sure the Chinese are unable to pack as much gadgetry into their cars, if anything they're ahead of the rest in cheap gadgetry. Mostly it seems to be quality & reliability (and comedy names & styling) issues with Chinese stuff. I'm sure the western manufacturers would rather throw R&D money into gadgets, reliability & performance to stay ahead of the competition rather than something as dull and complicated as emissions which has never been a glamorous selling point. I'd love to know what a modern car could do if you removed all the emissions stuff, gadgets, and airbags and stripped it back to the bare minimum. I guess the 3cyl Caterham 7 gives the answer to that though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 57mpg combined apparently(!) Who says you need diesel to be efficient -the 7 isn't exactly aerodynamic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 It's packed with lightness though! Really would love one for commuting... in the summer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 You know they fill it with lightness using the same process they use to get figs into fig rolls LR site says the 3.0 tdv6 RR does 40.0 combined and 44mpg on the motorway. It's at least 3 tonnes on a good day and it may be the most roundy RR yet but it's not exactly car aerodynamic. That isn't bad mpg! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The thing is George, what the manufacturers claim, and what is reality are worlds apart most of the time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I was wondering about that Phil. Plus you need the €120k base model price in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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