De Ranged Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Just brain storming part of my project First off electrics isn't my strong point so feel free to correct me lol Now I'm dropping a 24V motor and auto into an old Series, now not being flash on electrics I wanted to keep the whole truck to the same voltage.... so after a bit of research found it was possible to convert the motor and auto to 12volt..... Last night while chatting at the shed with a mate I was describing some of the things I plan to upgrade.... to do with electrics and it dawned on me... it would be easier to convert the truck than the motor and trans... I was planing on doing a new loom anyway so the way I see it the change isn't that great.... I also have a mate who is planing to go the opposite way so may be able to gain some parts from the same model truck my motor is from.... Now catch is I want to keep the early series look I don't want to go to flash plastic trim bits, levers, switches etc so the plan was to try and find period looking stuff like bakerlight toggle switches What I would like to know.... isn't a paint by numbers how too lol I don't do things easily and it probably won't be the way I want it... I want to know if I'm on the right track... if I have missed anything I have this vague memory of a couple of triangles to do with ohms law and comments about ratio'ing Volts and amperage so if this is right... I can use 12v switches because the amperage is less and amps is what kills them ? Most of the gauges I'll run new ones and just change the faces when I set them in the dash (need a better Volt and Oil Pressure gauges for this motor) One thing that does concern me is the speedo, my initial idea was a small motor running through a reduction box and turning the input gear of the speedo, this is controlled by a variable speed controller hooked up to a hall sensor on the rear drive shaft (controller and sensor a bit of a mash of Jay Car electronic kits) now this was all when I was planing on 12v is this still possible or am I better off trying to sort something else Is there anything I'm missing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 A switch will switch any voltage it dosen't care if you relay drive anything you would at 12v bolts you won't go far wrong. You can get some nice droppers from 24v to 12v to run things like stereo etc that are difficult to find in 24v. But I'm certain it will be easier to convert the motor to 12v than the car to 24v. Bulbs, gauges, radios etc are a lot easier to find in 12v. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruurd Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 AFAIK 24V gear is harder to come by and more expensive since the majority of cars is built on 12V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I would have 24V in a heartbeat, less amps, thinner wire requirements, more power from an alternator for a given size, better starting, and cheap, giant truck batteries are available. Getting hold of 24V stuff isn't hard, you just need a reasonable autoelectrics place or a truck shop, and as Mike says, a 24-12V dropper is cheap as chips for the odds and ends you fine you need 12V for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I would have 24V in a heartbeat, cheap, giant truck batteries are available. Truck batteries are 12v and two are connected in series to supply 24v, so their size and cost should have no bearing on the choice between the two voltages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 24v isn't that hard to find, even for stereo stuff.... we have alot of 24v trucks (4wd's) here that are 24v, mainly the cruisers and patrols but there are lots of them on the road....(my motor and trans are from a patrol), then you have all the commercial stuff Not really interested in the cost argument.... 12v looses out big time here, to convert the motor I have to get another alternator, starter motor etc now I can get bolt on options from the shorter 4 cylinder td27 or I go a custom 12v version of the td42 (short life span or custom expense) glow plugs are no problem they bolt in.... the trans lol I have to rebuild this with custom 12v pots from Aus and source a comp from a td27 On the flip side I'm looking at a couple a hundy more for a 24v gps entertainment unit and central locking is dearer But I plan on keeping this truck hopefully for the rest of my life or till diesel is too dear to run it on lol so if you look at the cost over that time its bugger all difference What I'm thinking about is the silly stuff like, windscreen wipers... I'm going to have to replace the motor (not afraid of doing this..) now are the 24v motors going to be the same size for the speed and power lol its that sort of silly stuff I'm concerned about... having the end truck look period means a lot to me but i want those mod cons Right so you understand just how far I'm going with this Blank canvas I have to make a new loom for the auto, and tie the motor loom into the truck, the original truck loom was lol well 1960's lucus electrics converted to a new motor finally finishing life launching a boat off a beach so haven't saved any of it .... so I'm up for a whole new truck loom so I'm going to improve it some lol HID lights (if I can find a legal way of doing this....) LED every thing else (under the original lenses so I keep the look) Adjustable multi-stage wipers on another column mounted switch that I can modify to look 1960's hence my question about switches as more than likely will come from a car The usual guages and speedo as mentioned in my OP Central locking but I'll mount these into the body not the doors.... alarm and immobilizer, variable fan/aircon controls etc If I go 24v the only thing I can see I'd need to run off the reducer is a CB/PRS radio Now there will be some camping electrics fridge, water pumps, lighting, solar charging (no idea on this yet...) and the ability to charge the usual gadgets (phone laptop etc) And yes before you say it yes the touch screen GPS is out of character.... I want it lol I just haven't worked out where and how to mount it so its usefull yet not glearingly out of place, I figured get the stereo in it as well so I limit the out of character stuff lol My concern is more about 12v components I can use if I make the call to go 24v and the differences to do 24v my level of electronics is good enough to paint by numbers lol and I will be doing alot of study before I start this part of the build The reason I want this sorted now is so I can make the call and start sourcing bits so why I'm seeking advice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 A word to the wise, it will be less expensive and a lot easier to convert the motor to 12 volt than all the remaining auxiliaries, lighting, gauges, alternator and general wiring harness etc. to 24 volt. These days even commercial trucks run on 12 volt, 24 volt used to be used on big rigs for the sole purpose of the extra ergs required from the starter motor, these days this isn't the case as they simply use a 12 volt starter motor with a built-in reduction gear in the starter motor to achieve the same result. The industry pressed for this change simply because of the hassle in getting such things as 24 volt light bulbs, replacement gauges, drop down voltage CB radios and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 This is weird, I drive a late model Merc truck for a living and its 24v, I don't know of any 12v big trucks.... will keep an eye out for it now As for costs I've just done a round of COF's for our fleet of little commercials near on all of them required a bulb or two and it was something like $3 dearer for the 24v bulbs at super cheap I just did a search for UHF 24v radio and came up with the Oricom UHF400 a 24v 80 channel set for under $300.... thats about the same as I'd pay for a 12v one Gauges on trademe (our version of gumtree or ebay) 24v guages.... fuel with sender for $110, electronic speedo with sender, thats similar price to a 12v one that doesn't come with a sender, alternator I'll use the Nissan TD motors as an example since they come out in both, 4 cylinder is 12v/60amps $300 brand new, 6 cylinder is 24v/50amps $340 now from my rough knowledge that 24v one is a hop up one that is alot more amps than standard and its only $40 dearer Now if I go 12v on the motor I need a new alt at $340, the senders off the motor (haven't bothered to work out what each one is sending, voltage, resistance etc) so some of them will need to be swoped, glow plugs a new set $110 then a timer (can't find a price for that lol) Now the starter after talking with a couple of sparky mates they are happy the 4 cylinder starter will start my 6 cylinder motor but they have warned me I will need bigger than standard 12v starter cables and the starter will wear out quicker no guess as to how long they will last lol or I get a high torque custom unit between $500 and $700 The real killer is the trans to convert it I need a kit from Aus $800 plus freight then I have to source a 12v computer to run it so I'm probably up to a $1000 on the trans lol and no cheap way around this So that is around the 2 - 2 1/2 grand mark to convert to 12v Now as I've said I don't mind spending this if its the way I end up going, if cost was a consideration I would go 24v due to cost lol Oh and both sparky mates recommended running both 24 and 12 "all good simple to do..." lol think they might be trying to get one back for all the times I've told them "simple, cut that off weld this on and it'll be all good ..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 My 101 is 24v with 12v ancillaries - based on my experience I would change the engine to 12v as it is easier that finding 24v items such as wiper motors, relays, instruments etc etc. As mentioned you will need two 12v batteries to run the thing so you will need to find the space. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I've got a 24 volt wiper motor you can have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Perhaps the NZ market has more 24v vehicles built for it that everywhere else ? It would give us different perceptions on the relative costs and merits of which route to take.. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I'd put a 12 volt alternator on as well as the OE 24 v. And put the 24v batteries under the seat. Then electrics can stay as they are. I guess the 'perfect' would be a 24v powered battery charger? But I doubt one exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 All the motor home bits are no problem as most boats over about 50 foot run 24v domestic systems. You should be able to use all the standard switch gear unless it has a resistor or is illuminated then you only have to change them to the correct value. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Going completely 12v or 24v isnt all that necessary , you have 24v for starting , charging , which you have the components for , all you have to do then is tap off the first battery and supply all your 12v stuff from that , best of both worlds. JMHO ps you can decide based on requirements what systems you want on 24v or 12v eg headlights on 24V radio in 12v etc . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Going completely 12v or 24v isnt all that necessary , you have 24v for starting , charging , which you have the components for , all you have to do then is tap off the first battery and supply all your 12v stuff from that , best of both worlds. JMHO ps you can decide based on requirements what systems you want on 24v or 12v eg headlights on 24V radio in 12v etc . You need equal draw off both batteries doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I guess the 'perfect' would be a 24v powered battery charger? But I doubt one exists. I have one - electronic 24v to 12v three stage smart charger - can provide up to 60 amps. Is Aussie made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 all you have to do then is tap off the first battery and supply all your 12v stuff from that , best of both worlds. JMHO No no no no - this results in different charging levels on each of the batteries and they quickly die. To do this you need a very very very expensive battery equaliser keeps the batteries balanced even though power is being taken from one battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Funny my lorry has a 12v winch powered from one battery for the last 5 years to my certain knowledge and it hasnt killed a battery yet.. And it was used a lot by the recovery company that owned it before me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Well you have been lucky - read up on the issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Doesnt the wiper motor have a cover over it anyway? or have you got the separate motor for each wiper setup? As long as you can get hold of the 24v relays easily I would stick with 24, it should be pretty easy to either buy (Im not sure what is available) or make something to give a 12v supply for the things that dont work on 24V. LED bulbs will most likely be fine with whatever voltage as they will be internally regulated to much lower than 12V anyway. You may even be able to make up some sort of pulse width modulator to give you a variable speed wiper and still use the 12V one. Some converters http://www.jaycar.com.au/Power-Products-Electrical/Power-Conversion-%26-Transformation/DC-DC-Converters/c/405B Or cheap and dirty http://www.jaycar.com.au/Active-Components/Discrete/Transistors---General-Purpose/MC78T12-12V-3A-Voltage-Regulator/p/ZV1634 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I am missing off the info that the 24v lightweight radio trucks S2 & 3 used standard parts and a resistor block for each motor. can't remember on the fuel gauge though? probably did the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Erm which parts? My 24v has different gauges, wipers, fan etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 As for wipers I have two options to choose from as I still have the SIII wiper from the toy sitting there as well as the single motor ones from the SIIa Hey Don next time your up bring it up and we can see if it fits.... I've made the call to go 24v, might be doing a bit of a swop with a mate if so I get dash gauges, relay and fuse blocks etc for similar items from a parts truck of mine There are performance advantages as well.... but the big decider was convenience lol I can leave the motor and trans alone... just sort there looms, the rest of the electrics i was redoing anyway I'll just do it in 24v oh and no shortage of relays etc I just tell my sparky mates what I want and they sort it been told they have huge catalogs of industrial stuff Thanks for the advice... will be keeping an eye out for 12v rigs now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 You can get marine 24v wipers. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Have run dual batteries on landrovers and other vehicles (hgv)for over 40 years never noticed a preponderance of primary or secondary failing , never had any fancy split charge system either , both in 12v and 24v systems. maybe others found differently , or rely on what they have heard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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