WesBrooks Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Afternoon. Are there any regulations regarding how a car should be wired? Ie, other than the rate at which things flash, or ensuring fogs can't be turned on on there own is there something that mandates the use of relays in certain situations? Also when building a one off what are the regulations about the odometer? As far as I can see the discovery 1 '95 speed sensor drives the odometer which ends up being a glorified pulse counter. I can make one easy enough but guess I may need to use one built for purpose? Cheers, Wesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Exactly what are you talking about: Getting a vehicle through an MOT with altered or additional wiring, passing an SVA/IVA construction & use test for a custom build, selling wiring kits for something to Joe Public, how best to wire something up in your truck, how to work out if you need a relay...? You can pass an MOT with a completely non-functional speedo as long as they can read the mileage to write it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superpants Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 The two main bits of legislation are: The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations Both as amended As FF says, which you need to comply with, and any other regulations or standards will be heavily dependent on what you are trying to achieve (other things such as; EMC, individual product standards, type approval (EUWVTA or IVA) etc etc...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Not quite true, current MoT regs say the speedo must work, but doesn't say it has to be accurate. It can have a broken glass, as long as it can be read, and I think it has to be lit for night use http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing-repair/mot-changes-2012.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesBrooks Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share Posted April 14, 2015 It's a one off loom for myself. I'm building a kit car based on a Discovery 1. Need to do extensive work on the dash and loom anyway and other than wiring things so they fail safe where possible I wondered if I have free scope to do what I like or not. While I shouldn't need to pass an IVA I'm building the car to that standard. In part to have a standard to build to, to avoid developer gold plating but to also keep the standard up in areas I may have overlooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesBrooks Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share Posted April 14, 2015 What about the odometer? Can I just display it on a screen with my own electronic counter behind it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesBrooks Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share Posted April 14, 2015 I realise I'm getting close to the ban on expressing opinions on the IVA. That's not my intention. I'm looking for information about any legal guides on how the lights, wipers, etc should be wired in a kit build as opposed to what they should do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I'm using a discovery loom and removing the bits I don't need for my ibex (mine will be IVA'ed). IVA etc are only interested in how it's mounted/position and whether it works correctly. They are not interested if it catches fire two weeks later that's your,insurance or the police/courts problem from what I can make out. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 the vehicle you are stripping should give you clues as to good practice. This coupled with common sense should handle the problem eg two circuits for either sidelight , so you dont lose all with one problem . relays for high loaded circuits , fuses/circuit breakers for harness protection . all auxillary front lights (other than fog) to go out with operation of dip switch . RVLR will supply what is obligatory . HTSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 What about the odometer? Can I just display it on a screen with my own electronic counter behind it? I don't see why not....the TD5 onwards speedo's are LCD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 There is a section on Speedo/odometer in the IVA manual it can't be a bicycle Speedo and I think you need to be able to prove it's accuracy but I would need to double check. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I'm looking for information about any legal guides on how the lights, wipers, etc should be wired in a kit build as opposed to what they should do. It may be a bit of an obvious suggestion but why not get the manual & do what it says? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 speedo has to be 10% accurate, and can only present a speed higher than the vehicle speed. The rest of the wiring is common sense; on an IVA they do loke at the state of the wiring from a safety point of view. I had a few unused wires in my loom that I just cut off; One point of failure was an exposed wire that might short on the bodywork (it was not live, but still a failure). Your pulse counter you can replace for a cable setup on a disco box. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 That's a whole lot of the word IVA in a section of the forum where its not supposed to be mentioned! Just saying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 That's a whole lot of the word IVA in a section of the forum where its not supposed to be mentioned! Just saying... That's more a rule for where it's unwelcome to whine about the IVA, and since this thread asked specifically about it, I can't see the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Wes, --- have a read of this lot http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showforum=31 the TOR article never actually happened, more IVA links in the Tech archive 'Manuals' section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiftedDisco Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Western... Sorry, link doesn't work... Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Works fine for me, just checked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 nor me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Works fine for me, just checked it. Did you link to a secret mod-only forum? Doesn't work for me either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesBrooks Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 Whoops, cat's out of the bag! I can't see it either. ;-) Look forward to a route through a new resource! Looks like forums number 30 and up need special permission to enter. Thanks all for the help. I'm now more happy that I haven't missed an obvious technical guide on how things should be done from a technical/schematic view rather than the standard to which the wiring should be finished in the vehicle. I have read through the IVA inspection manual and this covered the securing of the loom and how the lighting and other items like wipers should function. I'll try and get a copy of the regulations and have a look at the wiring sections. I expect these to be more specific around standard good wiring practice (ie like you'd see in a industrial machines electrical panel) ensuring wires are fuse/breaker protected to prevent them from exceeding their current carrying capacity and IP ratings for electrical switches and enclosures. Perhaps a little detail or guidance in addition to describe the use of seperating ground points for noisey items from communications etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UdderlyOffroad Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I'll try and get a copy of the regulations and have a look at the wiring sections. I expect these to be more specific around standard good wiring practice (ie like you'd see in a industrial machines electrical panel) ensuring wires are fuse/breaker protected to prevent them from exceeding their current carrying capacity and IP ratings for electrical switches and enclosures. Perhaps a little detail or guidance in addition to describe the use of seperating ground points for noisey items from communications etc. Think you might be expecting too much from the regs! They're regulations not standards. Doubt you'll find any mention of IP ratings whatsoever. I can't particularly recall seeing them on automotive electrical components either, apart from things specifically marketed as water resistant (e.g. LED Headlamps). As for separate ground points for 'noisy' items - what particularly do you think is noisy? By all accounts a dedicated run straight to the vehicle negative is sensible for CB radios but that's about it. If I were building a loom from scratch, I'd look at the Td5-era electrical schematics as a starting point, especially if you can lay your hands on a ROW-specification schematic (i.e. TD5 loom but a 300tdi 'clockwork engine). It shows the separate earths, as well as 'standard' colours and, importantly cable cross-sectional areas. This will give you an idea of Land Rover's anticipated current draw for their components. Clearly this was sometimes lacking (lack of headlamp relays being the famous example, routing all the electrons through the headlamp switch). This brings me neatly onto: As has been alluded to by other posters, I'd try to fit a Disco engine-bay fusebox (you might want to look at a Disco 2 one - it has special connectors but it looks to me like the individual pins are standard 6.3mm spades. As well as a basic fusebox where the 'stock' one is by the gear levers. Another option might be to look at VWP or Car Builder Solutions' Basic kit car looms they sell. The have, pre-wired, the minimum amount of circuits a kit car builder would need for the basic vehicle functions. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Did you link to a secret mod-only forum? Doesn't work for me either. Well it seems, it's in a admin/mods only area, Sorry guys, I didn't realise it was a 'protected' section, anyway the SVA/IVA manual is here http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=31855 http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=7302 http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=8579 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 my write up: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=31872&hl=%20another%20%20succesfull%20%20sva%20%20test Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I'm not an expert so feel free to ignore me but last time I looked I was sure there is a comment that a kit build car can have an inaccurate speedo as long as it reads faster than the actual speed? Thus they are happy that you will be going slower than the speed limit if you drive with the needle on the correct speed. This is of course flawed in that if you know your speedo reads 30% slower then you will drive faster to compensate. It only works if they don't tell you it reads slower! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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