Loading a trailer

[Shackleton]

I have to tow a transporter with a 1000kg mid engined car on it. It's been suggested that loading the car backwards would be a better placement of the weight, putting most of the mass between the trailer axles and the draw bar.

My D2 has a NAS spec hitch so non height adjustable, and the car is up 2" on HD springs.

I've plenty of towing experience but all with standard LRs and well quantified trailers/loads (horses, front engined vehicles etc). The backwards loading makes sense when I think of all the other vehicles I've towed, but is it the way to go?

On a side note I was going to borrow a friends transporter but when I went to check it, I found its custom built and heavier than a chieftain tank. I mean a proper bruiser, the box section is extensive and at a guess 5" square. it's got no brakes and the alloy wheels on it didn't look in great nick. I said I'd rent an Indespension instead which I've used before and found great. The response I got was "they're rickety things, the great thing about this one is its heavy so you can do 70/80mph all day and it's stable."

I would have thought stability would all be down to centre of gravity and optimal draw length, but I didn't argue cause I didnt want an argument

EDIT: one other thing - from reading on here the jury seems to be out about where a D2 Auto is up to long distance towing without the box overheating. I have to do about 120 miles out, then return with the car. I changed my ATF and filter earlier in the year, then a cooler pipe blew off twice and the box pumped all the ATF out. So it's had two full doses of fresh fluid since the first change. I reckon 1000kg car plus a known name trailer would come to maybe 1500kg which isn't huge, but I still have a reservation. Any thoughts?

[Dave W]

Not had to tow vehicles around for a few years but, if it's a twin axle and you have someone else to drive the car on the trailer for you then you can usually watch it load and see when it's right. As the centre of mass of the vehicle passes to the front of the trailer you can see the suspension change between the two axles and the weight bear down on the vehicle. If it's a long vehicle without much extra room on the trailer, you may need to try turning the car around if you don't see the transfer on the axles - putting it on backwards would make sense though I'd have thought.

[Shackleton]

Thanks Dave. Hadn't thought of that. I'll have a pal with me for contingency's sake. I'm not even going to attempt to start the car, it'll be a hand winch job. You've made me realise it's only about 13ft so the engine will prob be close to the axles even if loaded forward.

[Tanuki]

Provided you've got a sensible [50-100Kg] amount of downforce on the tow-hitch when loaded you should be OK.

I've done some towing of a twin horsebox using a D2 auto and it went just fine - with an occasional bit of a 'nudge' to encourage the box to downshift. In particular, when it comes to any long hills, always aim to climb the entire hill in the gear you'll be in at the top - nudge it down a couple of gears at the bottom of the hill if needed. Don't let it stagger up the hill in a high gear, losing RPM, then having to downshift part way through the climb. A fast-spinning engine keeps the coolant and the various oils flowing freely which carries away the heat faster and better!

[elbekko]

Never had any troubles doing long-distance heavy towing with the ZF boxes.

[miketomcat]

Yes load a mid or rear engined backwards on any trailer I normally go for the engine around 1 to 2 feet in front of the front set of wheels but this depends on trailer. We once loaded a front engined car on backwards to get the nose weight right as opposed to way over this was a very bad idea it was lethal to tow so we just live with excess nose weight.

As far as I know any trailer over 750kg must be braked by law. I've towed lightweight trailers for race cars and honking great big ones if the trailer is straight, loaded correctly and within it's weight it will tow fine.

Mike

[Shackleton]

Great tip Tanuki, the more natural thing to do is associate higher revs with more heat so I probably would have let it labour until it kicked down.

Good to have the reassurance elbekko.

Mike, good to have a scenario on the orientation of the car. If I'm honest I only realised (after years of towing) that tow balls rely more on optimum downforce rather than lateral force. I twigged it when I read up on off road recovery and found a bit about not attaching a strap or rope around a tow ball. Which I never did I swear.

FYI I just had a look on the Irish state site. It categorises <750kg as "O1 trailers" and says this:

"O1 trailers are not obliged to have brakes fitted unless they have a Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW), i.e. the weight of the trailer plus the load being carried, which is more than half the GVW of the towing vehicle to which they are attached.

If the trailer’s GVW is more than half the GVW of the towing vehicle, then the trailer must be fitted with a service brake, a parking brake and a device capable of automatically stopping the trailer if it becomes detached while in motion—i.e., a breakaway cable. As an alternative to a breakaway cable, a secondary coupling may be fitted."

[GBMUD]

Mid-engined cars are usually mid-engined in order to achieve 50/50 weight distribution, so forward or backward should not make much difference. Aerodynamically backwards may provide an advantage. At 1000kg you might just about find a single axle trailer - the type beloved of campervan drivers.

Chris

[Lewis]

I think your guestimate of the unladen weight of a twin axle trailer is low, we have one at work with a 3500kg GVW which weighs over 1000kg unladen

[Shackleton]

You're right Chris, I always presumed that golden 50:50 distribution was considered with driver onboard though? Not that it'd make any great difference for me, just another point of interest.

I had second guessed myself alright Lewis. Had a look on the Brian James site and even their little 10ft bed twin axle trailer is 550kg.

[Simon_CSK]

I have towed a car loaded the wrong way on a trailer because it was the only way to load it at the point of pick up and only a short distance to travel. It was a nightmare even for a short distance. Have my own Ifor transporter for Land Rovers and tows very well.

If the balance is a concern take two or three 5 gallon drums with you and fill them with water. Whilst increasing the load it will provide the possibility of countering the load distribution as required. Make sure they are strapped down though.

[tacr2man]

The rule of thumb with regards to direction of loading is engine towrds the front of trailer , eg porsche , VW , go on backwards .

Mid engine , its more down to using the method previously posted , drive forward until centre of weight is forward biased.

It is best to slightly overdo the forward loading , as getting it to central can result in instability if a tyre should go on second axle .

If you have a pair of bathroom scales wind down jockey wheel until just touching when you drive forward you should get a reading that will give you a guide figure . When you have stopped vehicle unwind jockey and then wind back to point where it just starts to lift front of trailer . This will allow you to check the first reading . You should aim for close to maximum nose weight allowable for the vehicle. Dont forget to inflate rear tyres of tow vehicle to pressure for relevant weight. This will also aid stability . The critical point is usually on going from pulling to overrun , if at any point you feel swaying starting slow down gradually and keep about 10mph below this speed. ZF boxes are excellent for towing , you should not have any problems in Irish ambient . If you find whilst climbing a steep hill that the gearbox is hunting between two gears use the gear selector to select the lower of the two gears , this will prevent it changing up . You should then regulate the speed so that the engine is within its optimum power band.

HTSH

[miketomcat]

I've always found when towing a car on a trailer the nose weight is way over the recommended. But I do use the roll it forward till the tow car drops method as well. If you do find it lively when towing stop increase nose weight then try again believe me snaking is not something you want to experience especially as a lot end with a big mess down the road.

Mike

[HoggyN]

After an an incident that got me a CU50 and three points, I always uses a nose weight gauge.

One of these...

http://www.milenco.com/products/noseweight-gauge/

[Shackleton]

The nose weight factor is really getting driven home here. Thanks for the advice gents.

I won't have access to a gauge, but with plenty of caution exercised I shouldn't be dealing with more than approx 100kgs of weight so I might use a bathroom scales. So when tacr2man mentioned max nose weight allowed for the vehicle, we're talking about the tow vehicle right? That being the case where do I find the nose weight for a D2. Is it inside the door with the tyre pressures?

Feel like I really opened a can of worms here, I don't mind being totally studious about this because the car is precious - as is safety, but it's strange now to think I would have just plugged on oblivious had I not asked around here!

[western]

So when tacr2man mentioned max nose weight allowed for the vehicle, we're talking about the tow vehicle right? That being the case where do I find the nose weight for a D2. Is it inside the door with the tyre pressures?

Yes the combined weight of trailer & load that acts on the tow vehicles towing hitch.

attached from my RAVE CD Discovery 2 section,

[Shackleton]

Thanks Ralph.

1/4 ton is lot more than I was expecting too.

[discomikey]

as a baseline, if unplated, or dont have access to the plate until i actually arrive to a trailer, i "assume" it will weigh roughly 800kg unladen, (if it is around 12ft) that is based on our GE DM12T and a variety of similar sized flatbeds i have towed, so i would suggest 600kg is an underestimation (unless it is one of them fancy car transporting ones with the speed holes all over it!)

as mentioned, a few trailers weigh over a tonne unladen, so assuming weights isn't the best way to go.

if you have B+E then this isn't a legality concern rather than a comfort-ability concern. your vehicle* should be well within its comfort zone with these predicted weights though.

*IF in good working and SAFE condition