reb78 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I have a small issue with the 110. Not sure if it is common or even a real problem. When crawling at ~7-10mph, in 1st/2nd gear, very little throttle, I sometimes get this surging/kangarooing of the car. Its not because the there is not enough throttle because it will crawl slower in first under idle (i.e. foot off of the throttle) smoothly. Coming off, or increasing pressure on the accelerator pedal stops it, but this isnt always possible if crawling in traffic. Anyone else get this with their 200tdi and is it an issue and if so what is the solution or just a weird thing at a particular throttle position at a given speed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Strangely I get this issue with my Diesel Subaru... and I put it down to a weird resonance type effect that happens due to the slack in the 4x4 transmission, it kinda of "bounces". I can get it to do it in my 200tdi 90, but I have to try, and its the same effect its like the transmission slack creates a bouncing resonance, its gets bigger lurches if you don't take your foot off, or speed up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 That's it exactly described^^^^. I'd assumed it was a fueling issue, but I guess it could be transmission slack actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 With the Subaru, I've put it down to the sensitive electronic throttle response or engine governor or whatever controls the engine speed, to be a little too sensitive for quite a clunky transmission, so if you get it in certain revs range in 1st gear it doesn't dampen out the surges of going along a rough pot holed road and you start to surge, you can hear/feel the transmission slack and its like the governor is responding to the load on the engine slightly too late, so it starts to surge... I guess you can have the same thing happening on a 200tdi, but my general thoughts are towards the governor set-up... could be wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 With the Subaru, I've put it down to the sensitive electronic throttle response or engine governor or whatever controls the engine speed, to be a little too sensitive for quite a clunky transmission, so if you get it in certain revs range in 1st gear it doesn't dampen out the surges of going along a rough pot holed road and you start to surge, you can hear/feel the transmission slack and its like the governor is responding to the load on the engine slightly too late, so it starts to surge... I guess you can have the same thing happening on a 200tdi, but my general thoughts are towards the governor set-up... could be wrong though. Are these governors adjustable at all? I'd always thought not and so was wondering if this was a problem that might indicate time for a pump rebuild/overhaul? It runs well, loads of power (relatively speaking for a tdi) otherwise. My other thought was whether the boost diaphragm pre-load might come into play. The starwheel is adjusted on mine 1 1/2 clockwise turns. It doesnt appear to boost at all at these low speeds (as expected), but if that preload is too light, then i guess even slight boost might make the diaphragm jump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 as stated above, it will be more than likely due to the slack in the drive train. each component has a springyness, which under normal use doesn't show its head. If there is excessive slack the "springyness" is wound up by the inertia created before that slack is taken up, this is then relieved when the springyness overcomes the inertia, and it bounces back through the slack and out to the other side. this in turn starts the whole lot over and over. This process, like everything ever, has a resonant frequency. It just so happens that your resonant frequency is at an annoying point and is often experienced. In order to solve this the best thing to do is to reduce the slack in the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I have the same problem with the 88. We've put that down to having a solid rod throttle linkage and with the TDi having considerably more power than the 2286 had it shows up. We think the engine is rocking slightly on the engine mounts and changing the throttle setting. This then sets up a rocking motion which is continually altering the throttle setting up and down, and the only way to cure it seems to be to dip the clutch. Makes hardknott and wyrnose damned hard work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I have this too on my 200tdi 90. I get it on a neutral throttle when going round bends at low speed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjmt Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 My Puma does exactly this as well.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I've experienced this massively in our old tractor. Problem with that one is the seat provides the suspension so when you go over a bump your foot bounces causing you to hit the throttle. The tractor accelerates and you roll back, foot comes off, tractor slows, you rock forwards and hit the throttle etc etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 Where would be the most likely places to find slop in the transmission that could lead to this? I think the only original things left on my 110 (transmission and engine wise) are both diffs, half shafts and drive hubs. The hubs always seemed tight, but I read a lot about them as a source of slack? That's not to say it isn't the gearboxes. UJs and props have no play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 The drive flanges must be the easiest to check and cheapest to fix ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Diff would be the next one IMO. Probably the largest source of backlash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 My diffs have done less than 2000miles and 500miles since rebuild so I should hope it's not the diffs on my car 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eds Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I have this too, the only way to stop it is to dip the clutch and start again, I can't accelerate out of it. I tried to eliminate the slack out of the transmission which is the cause but have failed as it is the total slack adding up rather than a particular bit of slack. You would need a totally new drive train as it starts in the gearboxes and ends up with the flanges via props, diffs and shafts. Driving technique is my solution :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Leave out National slogan alone you pommie person I'm not that keen on, jeezzz isn't enough you won the first test at Cardiff and now you go and maltreat our poor Roos.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I think the transmission slack is part of the problem, but you get this in all Landy's to a certain extent but you don't get the kangarooing... is your throttle cable nice and free, maybe worth giving the off boost fuelling a slight tweak, see if you can change the low rev dynamics slightly... I wouldn't be looking at the transmission slack to help solve the problem. Mav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I'd assumed it had something to do with the springs in the clutch friction plate being a bit tired ..... not sure why Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 You used to get a teeny dashpot type damper on the throttle linkage - I think on SUs and maybe on the Saab 900s we used to have, I can't recall exactly which but I do remember it as a small disc shaped thing in the linkage. If it broke, you got the effects you are all describing so maybe it's possible to get one and add it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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