Chicken Drumstick Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I'm still waiting for people to show what petrol engines are a good alternative to the Tdi. It's been mentioned a several times, at least twice by the op that there are better engines. Out of genuine curiosity I've asked 3 times what they are. But to which there has been no real answer yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 The 2.25, 2.5 and rover V8 are all alternatives. Thing is, everyone has different needs from an engine, I personally prefer petrol over diesel, and if I need economy, then LPG is great. Others prefer rattly old stinky diesel engines, that's fine, but don't put me near one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 The best bit is that the original poster is questioning the choice of a TDI engine in a land rover. But what lurks under the bonnet of his own land rover? Makes those 5 pages a bit more pointless! Sorry, going now... Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Question of a TDI in a *Series* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 The 2.25, 2.5 and rover V8 are all alternatives. Thing is, everyone has different needs from an engine, I personally prefer petrol over diesel, and if I need economy, then LPG is great. Others prefer rattly old stinky diesel engines, that's fine, but don't put me near one. Op said alternatives to a Tdi in a Series. Since the Series was only really available with the 2.25, I don't see that as an alternative, as that's the engine you'd be removing. RV8's are an obvious choice, but the op seemed to be hinting at something more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I know that, but still. Cheap and easy is hard to beat, is how I would summarize the last 5 pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I built a 88"2a with new Richards chassis, late series 3 24spline axles, suffix d MOD gearbox, overdrive, high ratio diffs, 200tdi with 300tdi turbo and lots of TIG welding to make it what I think was the best tdi conversion I've seen - it looked completely factory with no hose joiners anywhere. I drove it once as a test up the road and it was an awful noisy thing compared to my 2286cc lightweight and 300tdi defenders. I put it straight on eBay as an unfinished project and someone happily paid me £4500 for it. So, you massively overgeared the vehicle and then say the engine is rubbish? Fitting both overdrive and 3.54 diffs doesn't often work. Then you complain that an incomplete diesel vehicle with no sound proofing is noisy? Fine to experiment, but to drive it once and get rid was foolish. To brag about it is ludicrous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 It's ease of acquisition divided by cost over practicality If we lived in Americashire - we'd just throw in a V8 of some sort and some stronger axles. If we lived in Australiashire, then it would be a Holden lump or something out of a Ford and some Hi-lux or Nissan axles Best engine I have ever used/driven/rubbed my naked body over is the Nissan VK45DE - you never find one in a completion motor yet they are like nails but tougher, they are cheap and easy to import. Bolt on bits are easy - twin turbo's and super chargers. Light, very powerful, massively reliable, cheap and they have lots of cams. Yet everyone wants an LS of some form.... I only got to know of the VK because it's an option in the Ultima. Best lump I have ever had in a Series - out of a huge number: Diesel - 2.5 NAD Diahatsu lump Petrol 2.2 Nissan lump out of a 720 Pick up - closely followed by a built up 2.25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Best lump I have ever had in a Series - out of a huge number: Diesel - 2.5 NAD Diahatsu lump Must admit I drove one of those in a 6x4 LWB series 3 and I recall thinking it was a belting engine , I fancied that engine in a 90 but settled on a Perkins 4cyl 3.0D which was good but a bit noisier. Currently fitted 300TDi is nicer to drive though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 I'm still waiting for people to show what petrol engines are a good alternative to the Tdi. It's been mentioned a several times, at least twice by the op that there are better engines. Out of genuine curiosity I've asked 3 times what they are. But to which there has been no real answer yet. Rover 2.25 back in? Rover 2.5 Rover V8 (3.5>4.6) Rover T16 Ford Pinto Ford Essex V6 BMW M30 The Tdi in my Disco is "alright" it will never be anywhere near as good as the 3.9 V8 in the last one, yes in time when suitable donor is found, a V8 will be installed under the bonnet, we toyed with 6cyl BMW M30 but decided to do something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 No one's mentioned electric drive yet. (Ducks for cover. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 SimonR was working on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jai_landrover Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 It's all debate, ideas, and theories agree disagree whatever. If we all were the same we would be boring guys driving Toyota Prius'!! It's been an expensive thread! Or will be! I was looking up rebuild parts for the 200 sitting in my garage. Chicken, Tims 90 must feel really light and easy going compared to a std 200? I've been spoilt my bro builds quite nice v8's. From the days when he used to comps safari every weekend when he was a landy tech he has built more than a few v8's. Add to that copious amounts of rolling road sessions and I mean A lot to get the correct needles and the outcome was very satisfying for a wee 3.5 on Su's Max 212bhp @4800rpm, 360lbft @ 2400rpm, 200lbft @ 1600rpm, Stable Tickover at 400rpm Car covered 100k miles now is in Andrew F's trialer however converted to efi which isn't s good as it was. Everything was matched a recepie that all parts work in together well. Fair amount of machining and suchlike built from bare block no expense spared but likewise no gimmicks added. Goal was a very very nice tow car engine for the 90 and a good torquey trials engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Yep I do prefer the feel of a V8 for trialling you are correct Another thing, it's much better balance and more stable down hill. Tdi's tend to be a bit nose heavy IMO. I think this is going to be the issue with my 88 trialler I'm building as that has a 200Tdi in it. I might have to add some rear ballast, but that in itself isn't a good thing, as more weight isn't exactly what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 No one's mentioned electric drive yet. (Ducks for cover. ) I'm not keen on the way it was done on the Eden Project's 110, but the Ricardo prototype from a few years ago really floats my boat - drum motors on each wheel, electronically controlled to provide ideal speed or torque to the individual wheels, so better than locking diffs, with no IC engine, gear boxes, prop shafts or diffs. The spaces in the chassis were used for batteries. So, also a low CoG with little overall increase in mass and increased ground clearance (no diff cases). No leaks, no wading worries and a near silent drive system. I think the only negative would be recharging times, but as battery tech improves, I think that'll be the future. What's not to love about that design? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Yep I do prefer the feel of a V8 for trialling you are correct Another thing, it's much better balance and more stable down hill. Tdi's tend to be a bit nose heavy IMO. I think this is going to be the issue with my 88 trialler I'm building as that has a 200Tdi in it. I might have to add some rear ballast, but that in itself isn't a good thing, as more weight isn't exactly what you want. The engine sits further aft and lower in a Series than in a Defender, especially 300Tdi and later, so might not be an issue on them, but the V8 does have a weight advantage. Unrelated to that response, I have found that with a little sound proofing of the bulkhead, most of the noise on my 109 came from the transmission. That is going to be the same regardless of engine choice unless you replace the transmission too. Sound proofing the seat base, tunnel and floor help, but most noise still seems to come from there in my case, and that's with a rebuilt transmission (ie. not faulty). I don't know if others using Tdis with standard Series transmission find the same. So, in my experience, slating the engine for its (admittedly increased) noise and harshness is disingenuous. As for low rpm torque, yes, it does suffer from a lack of boost and is lower than the 2.5 nad at less than 1400rpm. It's a costly fix, but VNT turbos help a lot. While that may seem an impossible outlay for many who'd argue for the V8, I'd counter that the Tdi and V8 engines in good order will probably cost about the same, and that the cost of a VNT could be compared to a good LPG conversion. So, it's swings and roundabouts... I think the final arguments there will come down to the fact that the Tdi will gve much greater range for a fuel capacity while the V8 will be a nicer, smoother drive. Which is most important is down to the individual. But I think the loss of footwell space is an important issue on V8 conversions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Yes, my Series transmission in the 88 is noisy, I can still hear it through the Wright Offroad soundproofing. There's no soundproofing in The 109 as yet and I'm getting a lot of engine noise from that. The LT77 and LT230 I can't hear much of though, except in low box. They both really need a rebuild, that's one breaker I won't be using again, or recommending :angry2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 the rover t16 was mentioned above as a good alternative to a tdi.... i would have to disagree my disco was a mpi (t16 with no turbo) and even after i;d traybacked it so it as significantly lighter it was still a over revvy underpowered dog! yes it might have 120bhp(ish) but it makes no torque and all the bhp is at the top end! it was useless for towing, so bad in fact that i did a 100 mile trip with it half of which it had 3.5 ton behind it and had to push it so hard to even get up the hills it ate its rings and died in a cloud of smoke! i got it home by topping the oil up every 20 miles! even for a series with its lightness (lol) i wouldnt recommend one. they are just so unsuited for landrover use. the 200tdi out performs it in spades.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I'm not keen on the way it was done on the Eden Project's 110, but the Ricardo prototype from a few years ago really floats my boat - drum motors on each wheel, electronically controlled to provide ideal speed or torque to the individual wheels, so better than locking diffs, with no IC engine, gear boxes, prop shafts or diffs. The spaces in the chassis were used for batteries. So, also a low CoG with little overall increase in mass and increased ground clearance (no diff cases). No leaks, no wading worries and a near silent drive system. I think the only negative would be recharging times, but as battery tech improves, I think that'll be the future. What's not to love about that design? I've often thought a system like this (or with hydraulic motors on each wheel) could have a place in an off-roader. An electric Land Rover, used in a confined setting (farm, forest, etc.) in which the overall mileage isn't high and you return to the same place each night, could be a very good idea. However, you'd REALLY want to trust your water-proofing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'm still waiting for people to show what petrol engines are a good alternative to the Tdi. TBH these days there's plenty of diesel engines which are a goo alternative too. The issue with engine swaps of any sort is there's an immediate trade-off down the line for maintenance, spares, etc., especially once you switch manufacturers. For some it's worth it, for others it's marginal at best. Also it's entirely down to what you want from the vehicle so no-one can hold up any engine and say "this is the best one, full stop" - hence why the subject creates endless pointless arguments on the internet... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Friend of mine brought a rangy down to mine a few years ago, 5 litre V8 diesel. That was quiet, and boy was it quick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Caterpillar C7 in mil spec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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