elbekko Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Stellaghost said: Would someone mind explaining the differences, pro's and cons of Thor and gems engines and any other variant I might of missed, also which one is easier to mate up to an lt77,( not a massive issue, pretty sure I could make something either way) also reliability. Thanks regards Stephen Thor (Bosch engine management) - later version, intake manifold that looks like a bunch of bananas. The manifold gives better low-down torque, trading off a bit of top-end power. Never factory mated to a manual, but that only matters if you want to keep the stock engine management, as the 60-2 trigger wheel is on the flywheel. Runs higher fuel pressure (3.5 bar). Also has an aluminium sump. GEMS (Lucas engine management) - earlier version, rectangular intake manifold. Was available as both manual and auto, manual flywheels are pretty rare. Again only really matters if you plan on using the stock engine management. Blocks are all the same. Ancillaries are different, but can be swapped over freely. Edited July 17, 2023 by elbekko 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 One downside of them is that they don't have quite the levels of torque that say the 4.6 Rover V8 does. I think 210lbft vs 280lbft but it's not a million miles away (think 265hp in stock form) but the nice thing about it is that it builds that torque pretty much from idle all the way up the rev range. 3 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: I know you're not an auto man, but you can bolt a Jeep AW4 box (basically the same as the lexus box with a different tailhousing) up to the back of the 1UZ and then a relatively cheap or homemade adapter bolts it up to the LT230... I've got a blank casting from a mate who did various adapters years ago to mate stuff up to an LT230 and a ZF spline adapter thingy. Throwing a tape measure over it a couple of years back when I acquired the LS400 it looked like with some basic machining of that casting you could get the A340 box from the LS400 to mate up to the LT230 without having to clock the boxes like ZF did for the various LR fitments. It was going to be tight though. Would have resulted in a combination that was the same length as a 300Tdi, R380 and LT230 because the box is so compact for an auto. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 Get a v8 to Series adapter and it should bolt to your lt77 and also give you the shortest engine/ gearbox combo available to a v8. The whole Thor/gems thing is only really relevant to the front cover, it can all be swapped around and mis matched with the use of spacers though. I have a Thor inlet manifold on a GEMS 3.9. I like it. the whole thing about the “this has more power from factory” argument is no one ever tells you at what RPM it’s made at. important because a rover v8, civic typeR and a bmw s1000rr all made around 200 bhp in various iterations of their lives …..one’s 4L, one’s 2L and the others 1L and their torque curves reflect this. easy way to decide is look at where the sweet spot is on the power curve and see where your gearing sits at that rpm then work out what speed you’re at. Mine likes 2600 rpm for some reason so I’ve messed about with diffs and transfer boxes so 2600rpm is 60mph the rest kindof falls into place hope that has made sense, I’ve taken a lot of painkillers thismorning 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MECCANO Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 (edited) Only thing i'll add to the Lexus bunfight, they are getting very spendy these days as the drifters love slapping turbos on them. Rear sump is going to cost you serious wonga. There are people doing the flange to make your own. but i'm sure a man of your caliber could sort his own. Edited July 17, 2023 by MECCANO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted July 17, 2023 Author Share Posted July 17, 2023 I take it a v8 to lt77 bell housing would do the job part no HRC1288 Regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted July 17, 2023 Author Share Posted July 17, 2023 Thanks for the info so far There's a part of me wished I never asked.......... Regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted July 17, 2023 Author Share Posted July 17, 2023 Might have to go with a good old fashioned 3.5 carb as I half know where I'm at with that and anybody with knowledge for assistance with wiring is around 300 miles away, very inconsiderate of you all to live so far away.........lol Regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted July 17, 2023 Author Share Posted July 17, 2023 One thing I forgot to add with the new winch bumper, I made it to the original winch bumper mountings so I can swap back to original set up very quickly. This is relevant because I was going to cut off original mounting set up and mount new bumper 2" further in to give a better approach angle for overhangs ! !! But I figured 90 degree approach should be enough....... Regards Stephen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 23 minutes ago, Stellaghost said: I take it a v8 to lt77 bell housing would do the job part no HRC1288 Regards Stephen Possibly but I would double check as your input shaft may be too short. And why no 4.6 on carbs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 35 minutes ago, Stellaghost said: Might have to go with a good old fashioned 3.5 carb as I half know where I'm at with that and anybody with knowledge for assistance with wiring is around 300 miles away, very inconsiderate of you all to live so far away.........lol Regards Stephen EFI is only as complex as you want to make it, tbh. Nige offers full pre-made looms, can't speak to the quality of them, but I'd expect it to be fairly plug-and-play. Hook up some grounds and power wires, put in a high-pressure fuel pump, and bob's your uncle. Do some tuning once you get closer to grown-ups like @Bowie69 or @FridgeFreezer, but the base map should work just fine. Or fit a carb and an electric winch, as you'll need it to get yourself off sideslopes 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 Agreed *I* don't find it complex, but compared to having an already running Lexus factory ECU I'm pretty sure I know which one @Stellaghost would choose! Never seen one of Nige's pre-built kits in the flesh properly, and no doubt lovely, but if you have one that works, a kit is ~£1.5K which is a massive outlay compared to what Sid has currently cost Stephen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 To date my "conversion" (gathering of bits and thinking) has been - £400 for the whole Lexus (cost £550 but chap who wanted the shell gave me £150 for it and it was simple that way to get rid of it). - £900 for the adapter plate and flywheel, at the time I didn't have the equipment to do it myself, now I sort of do and I regret paying for it considering it didn't fit. - Probably about £100 in an EFI fuel pump, oil filter relocation kit and relays. So about £500 if Stephen made his own adapter plates. That's with the factory ecu running the engine outside of the donor car. Going to have to do some work on the headers to make them clear the clutch if I keep it manual but that's just a bit of cutting and welding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 @Stellaghost I'll point out I have a V8 disco lt77 in my truck and the spigot bush is considerably smaller than the diesel. The input shaft is also about 7mm shorter. So I doubt a V8 will fit yours with just a bell housing (you can fit a V8 box on a 200tdi though ). Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 36 minutes ago, elbekko said: Do some tuning once you get closer to grown-ups like @Bowie69 or @FridgeFreezer, but the base map should work just fine. God no don't ask me to tune anything, I can solder them together & wire them up but I suck at tuning! Pretty sure we could find Stephen a bargain basement megasquirt if he needed one, I've got a few donor units that came in for repair that are not in a condition to be sold to anyone but should run a Rover V8 perfectly well. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted July 17, 2023 Author Share Posted July 17, 2023 29 minutes ago, Ed Poore said: To date my "conversion" (gathering of bits and thinking) has been - £400 for the whole Lexus (cost £550 but chap who wanted the shell gave me £150 for it and it was simple that way to get rid of it). - £900 for the adapter plate and flywheel, at the time I didn't have the equipment to do it myself, now I sort of do and I regret paying for it considering it didn't fit. - Probably about £100 in an EFI fuel pump, oil filter relocation kit and relays. So about £500 if Stephen made his own adapter plates. That's with the factory ecu running the engine outside of the donor car. Going to have to do some work on the headers to make them clear the clutch if I keep it manual but that's just a bit of cutting and welding. Your a bit out of touch, nothing even close to £400 for an engine, you were very fortunate Regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted July 17, 2023 Author Share Posted July 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Bowie69 said: Agreed *I* don't find it complex, but compared to having an already running Lexus factory ECU I'm pretty sure I know which one @Stellaghost would choose! Never seen one of Nige's pre-built kits in the flesh properly, and no doubt lovely, but if you have one that works, a kit is ~£1.5K which is a massive outlay compared to what Sid has currently cost Stephen. I'm assuming Lexus v8 is the easier route Regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted July 17, 2023 Author Share Posted July 17, 2023 49 minutes ago, miketomcat said: @Stellaghost I'll point out I have a V8 disco lt77 in my truck and the spigot bush is considerably smaller than the diesel. The input shaft is also about 7mm shorter. So I doubt a V8 will fit yours with just a bell housing (you can fit a V8 box on a 200tdi though ). Mike @miketomcat, I'll point out I have a lathe, milling machine and a pile of scrap....lol Regards Stephen Edit : and a s**t load of determination........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted July 17, 2023 Author Share Posted July 17, 2023 1 hour ago, dangerous doug said: And why no 4.6 on carbs? Is that a thing... Regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 19 minutes ago, Stellaghost said: Is that a thing... Regards Stephen It’s all modular and all fits. I will say though, I think the carbs are the wrong direction. Another option to consider is stroking out the tdi. Place in Cambridge does the cranks and it wouldn’t be much of a difference cost wise to building and fitting a v8 td5 is also a good choice and fairly cost effective 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 Just now, dangerous doug said: It’s all modular and all fits. I will say though, I think the carbs are the wrong direction. Another option to consider is stroking out the tdi. Place in Cambridge does the cranks and it wouldn’t be much of a difference cost wise to building and fitting a v8 You thinking of the M&D 2.8 conversion? Not sure if they do a 200 version. Or is it the same crank 2/300? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 27 minutes ago, Stellaghost said: Is that a thing... Regards Stephen It can be, but you lose a load of power and flexibility.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 31 minutes ago, Stellaghost said: I'm assuming Lexus v8 is the easier route Regards Stephen For you, I would think so, given your ability to hew all sorts of metals into shape. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 1 hour ago, landroversforever said: You thinking of the M&D 2.8 conversion? Not sure if they do a 200 version. Or is it the same crank 2/300? I thought the 2/300 blocks were the same but the rest was different. No idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 1 hour ago, dangerous doug said: It’s all modular and all fits. I will say though, I think the carbs are the wrong direction. Another option to consider is stroking out the tdi. Place in Cambridge does the cranks and it wouldn’t be much of a difference cost wise to building and fitting a v8 td5 is also a good choice and fairly cost effective I would fit A 300 TDI to solve the clearance issues you have to the front axle and potentially fit a VNT turbo if you want more poke. Best bang for buck i'd say. From what I saw of the closeness of the front diff, I reckon any V8 option is a problem in this area. Have we come to conclusion on gearing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 If you find a crusty D2 or P38 to break, the Rover V8 can be very cheap indeed... but then if you look round or know a few people you can always find something for less than normal price. Honestly I think the whole engine choice thing pretty much boils down to personal preference, every engine has good points and bad points and it just ends up in an internet bun-fight to argue over the details. The big positive with a LR lump - be it TDi or V8 or whatever - is you're in the same parts bin for everything. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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