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Jamie_grieve

Thoughts and musings on the new defender

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3 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

ut the vehicle looks superb IMO. MT tyres as standard, nice interior and great spec. Have to say I thought the ground clearance and approach/departure angles looked superb. Easily as good as a stock Defender. 

You reckon the approach angle's as good with that bumper on it? I was wondering if it was a European specced thing, it's that big it doesn't even fit in the picture!! Maybe that'll be NCAP to thank for that. The short wheelbase will obviously have a better breakover angle than the long wheelbase but compare it to a stock defender and I think you'll see the 110 slightly ahead at least on paper compared to the 4 seater Rubicon but there's no doubting the Jeep Rubicon's a better vehicle in almost every way than a  defender (did I really just say that on a Land Rover forum?).

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8 hours ago, Jamie_grieve said:

You reckon the approach angle's as good with that bumper on it? I was wondering if it was a European specced thing, it's that big it doesn't even fit in the picture!! Maybe that'll be NCAP to thank for that. The short wheelbase will obviously have a better breakover angle than the long wheelbase but compare it to a stock defender and I think you'll see the 110 slightly ahead at least on paper compared to the 4 seater Rubicon but there's no doubting the Jeep Rubicon's a better vehicle in almost every way than a  defender (did I really just say that on a Land Rover forum?).

The front bumper is dreadful, but at least you can swap it over for an aftermarket one :D

The Unlimited is 118.4" wheelbase, so I'm not surprised a 110" One Ten has a better breakover angle. Wiki says the 2 door Rubicon has a 44 degree approach angle and 10.8" clearance. I'm sure the Euro bumper lowers the approach a bit, but it still looks a lot better than a Discovery 1.

The LR website claims 47 degree and 323mm (12.7") for the Defender, so looks like you are correct. Although pretty close.

 

 

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18 hours ago, Maverik said:

Somones snapped a pic of it wearing an interesting disguise...

 

Its looking like a 2 door discovery 3

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Just look at that bodywork, all saggy and rippled.

Nothing new there then...

:hysterical:

 

  • Haha 2

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17 hours ago, Jamie_grieve said:

You reckon the approach angle's as good with that bumper on it? I was wondering if it was a European specced thing, it's that big it doesn't even fit in the picture!! Maybe that'll be NCAP to thank for that. The short wheelbase will obviously have a better breakover angle than the long wheelbase but compare it to a stock defender and I think you'll see the 110 slightly ahead at least on paper compared to the 4 seater Rubicon but there's no doubting the Jeep Rubicon's a better vehicle in almost every way than a  defender (did I really just say that on a Land Rover forum?).

If you want a play thing, then a short wheel base Rubicon is a good option.  If you want a working vehicle or something to take you around the world, then it's a terrible choice.

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I'm thinking maybe a launch at Geneva? (March next year) But equally I could see LR doing their own separate thing.

 

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I wonder if this is ever likely to make series-production and then be type-approved for the UK?

https://products.rivian.com/suv/

https://products.rivian.com/

And if so, what sort of tax-breaks/subsidies would be available to purchasers here? If they can get a range of 250 miles on one charge I'd seriously consider it!

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Did anybody else notice the broken or missing wheel nut?

That's just bad form driving around without checking the basics. If it was missing on the front too one could argue it was intentional. I'm going to moan about them doing all their testing on low profile road tyres as well!!

5 hours ago, Snagger said:

If you want a play thing, then a short wheel base Rubicon is a good option.  If you want a working vehicle or something to take you around the world, then it's a terrible choice.

I agree wholeheartedly. Generally I'm looking for vehicles that can be used to take teams of 8 to 10 people and their equipment over unmade roads and varied terrain on a daily basis to their place of work. Right now the Land Cruiser 78 series seems to be the only vehicle in the whole entire world that's feasible. Toyota Hiace 4x4 vans do for the less arduous terrain. I've been recommending Ford Rangers for other duties over and above the hilux since the Mk 7 came out. I imagine we'll start buying Russian vehicles if Toyota stops making the land cruiser in its current form. I wouldn't even consider the Rubicon for a fleet role if you read my earlier posts on the subject although if it was dumbed down and at the right price point maybe for some roles. I could buy two Toyota 76 series for the price of one Rubicon and they would be a better made more durable product with world wide parts supply. Defenders did very well in the role, it's a shame they don't make anything like it any more.

lrdefenderswb.j04.jpg

Screenshot 2018-11-29 at 23.18.28.png

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16 minutes ago, Jamie_grieve said:

 I could buy two Toyota 76 series for the price of one Rubicon and they would be a better made more durable product with world wide parts supply.

In the UK?

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3 hours ago, Tanuki said:

I wonder if this is ever likely to make series-production and then be type-approved for the UK?

https://products.rivian.com/suv/

https://products.rivian.com/

And if so, what sort of tax-breaks/subsidies would be available to purchasers here? If they can get a range of 250 miles on one charge I'd seriously consider it!

I like that!

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15 minutes ago, reb78 said:

In the UK?

No, but  buying in UK territory though, Gibraltar and exporting to the country of choice. A poverty pack LC 79 series can be had for $23k the rest of the range isn't that far behind. Optioned with ARB or TJM bar work, difflocks, AC, altitude compensation and spares pack was about $32k or thereabouts. 

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Jeeps are really popular in the UAE for the expats (locals almost all have Nissan Patrols, a handful having L405 RRs or Land Cuisers).  You don't see many Jeeps without significant mods, though - the vast majority have raised suspension and big tyres, and a large proportion have massively uprated axles.  Speaking to a fair few colleagues who own them, they have Land Rover or worse levels of reliability, especially those used in the desert in standard form with their weaker axles, seemingly not much different from Rover axles on 90s and Discoverys.  Lots of broken diffs and shafts unless they uprate to Dana60s and equivalent.

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On 11/30/2018 at 12:36 AM, Jamie_grieve said:

No, but  buying in UK territory though, Gibraltar and exporting to the country of choice. A poverty pack LC 79 series can be had for $23k the rest of the range isn't that far behind. Optioned with ARB or TJM bar work, difflocks, AC, altitude compensation and spares pack was about $32k or thereabouts. 

They must mark them heavily in Aus then, as the base spec Workmate 79 can’t be had for less than $70K, so about £40K.

Jeep Wranglers in the UK appear to have benefited from Defender prices, as used prices are now a lot higher than just a couple of years ago. Jeep UK seem to have taken advantage of this and added £10K+ to the price of a JL compared to the equivalent JK before. So in the UK they’re asking about £48K for Rubicon, the equivalent cost ~$44K in the US.

The new double cab pick up looks good...

jeep-glad-1.jpg?itok=wDmktQiB

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image.png.7a3ea49eae14018306b86396da82c9d8.png

Quote

They must mark them heavily in Aus then, as the base spec Workmate 79 can’t be had for less than $70K, so about £40K.

 

The 'Toyota tax' in Australia is a standing joke but remember Toyota is actually a religion there rather than a vehicle manufacturer. Now that there is no local vehicle production in Australia I wonder if vehicle import duty will decrease?

I could also be accused of comparing apples to oranges as I think the Australian ones are all VDJ whereas I'm quoting 1HZ. The base model 79 series with a 1HZ could be had for only $21,395. Notice I'm using USD, not Sterling, that's £16,219 or AUD 29,082 for a basic one. Obviously that's without registration, shipping or any taxes and very much status dependent but shows you what Land Rover is actually up against. I have no idea what it costs to make a car but if an iphone by all accounts is about $50 to make, is there the same markup for cars? Are they like diamonds where the price is carefully controlled by supply to the demand, a strategic waiting period to imbue one with a sense of value? I would imagine it to be a lot more cutthroat than that but I'd also imagine there to be a much healthier margin for range rovers than a utility vehicle. I do however know that Toyota wouldn't sell the 70 series if they didn't make money from it. Japan has no natural resources, has expensive labour and very strict standards on everything that we have standards for. How can they do it and we somehow can't? I understand that JLR is a niche producer and maybe can't borrow finance at the same rate but they could build a cheap utility vehicle if they wanted. The 70 series shows cheap doesn't mean low quality.

Screenshot 2018-12-02 at 19.52.50.png

Edited by Jamie_grieve
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The Toyota tax is very much the same in Zambia. We looked at buying a few recently to support remote construction sites and the base spec 79 single cab is $47,500 duty exempt whilst the double cab starts at $58,000. Add in the ridiculous duties charged and that goes to $69,400 and $77,000 respectively. That said Toyota clearly have a market, every other vehicle on the roads seems to be one.

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I've seen some commentary on the JK/JLs from the Aussies (and they tend to know about longevity, even if they are all brainwashed by Toyota), and the prognosis was that they have Land Rover -like, or worse, reliability and quality control levels.

Hardly inspires much confidence, but I guess it would depend on your usage -it seems fine for most on here.

 

 

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On 11/30/2018 at 9:14 AM, Snagger said:

Jeeps are really popular in the UAE for the expats (locals almost all have Nissan Patrols, a handful having L405 RRs or Land Cuisers).  You don't see many Jeeps without significant mods, though - the vast majority have raised suspension and big tyres, and a large proportion have massively uprated axles.  Speaking to a fair few colleagues who own them, they have Land Rover or worse levels of reliability, especially those used in the desert in standard form with their weaker axles, seemingly not much different from Rover axles on 90s and Discoverys.  Lots of broken diffs and shafts unless they uprate to Dana60s and equivalent.

Depends what Jeeps you are referring too. The Dana 30 and 35 are used quite a lot over the years. These are about on par with a Rover axle strength wise, .e.g fine with circa 33" tyres and can be used with 35" but caution required.

You can beef them up, but nobody does, because swapping on some Dana 44 axles is usually easier and cheaper.

The JK's in some cases came with Dana 44's, but not in all specs and all markets. The D44's are pretty strong and easily capable of matching a fully built Ashcroft Rover axle or better.

 

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20 hours ago, SteveG said:

They must mark them heavily in Aus then, as the base spec Workmate 79 can’t be had for less than $70K, so about £40K.

Jeep Wranglers in the UK appear to have benefited from Defender prices, as used prices are now a lot higher than just a couple of years ago. Jeep UK seem to have taken advantage of this and added £10K+ to the price of a JL compared to the equivalent JK before. So in the UK they’re asking about £48K for Rubicon, the equivalent cost ~$44K in the US.

 

Wrangler prices have gone crazy sadly. I went to one of the launch events in 2006 for the JK (which was launched in 2005 in the US). At the time a base spec 2 door Sport was just over £19k OTR. When I spoke to a dealer a short while later they said they were selling them for just over £17k with discounts.

The JL is more pricey than the JK, but Jeep UK overnight a number of years ago increased the prices of the JK's by a lot. I guess they assumed they would sell a similar total, but make more margin.

The issue with the JL is, in the US, the base model 2 door is $27k, but in the UK the cheapest offering is £44.5k. Which is quite a huge difference. Also in the UK the Rubicon costs slightly more than a base model Porsche Cayman. In the USA the Cayman costs about 50% more than the Rubicon.

For me, they have just priced this all wrong. If I had nearly £50k to spend on an exciting car, as great as the Wrangler is, I'd go and buy one of those new Alpines....

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They get close, then the clip ends, brilliant! :)

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Well I have now officially seen an actual production bit of the new Defender but I can't say what as the guys making them are under an NDA.

It was a boring and small part that tells you absolutely nothing about the finished vehicle but at least it's made in the UK not China.

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55 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Well I have now officially seen an actual production bit of the new Defender but I can't say what as the guys making them are under an NDA.

It was a boring and small part that tells you absolutely nothing about the finished vehicle but at least it's made in the UK not China.

OOOOOOOOO that's pretty cool :) It's always nice being party to something that others don't know about!

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