steve b Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 front cover is the same for Defender/Disco/RRC 300 Tdi The cowl has the flap on top for RRC/D1 which maybe related to the rad pack being slightly closer to the engine? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 3 hours ago, steve b said: As for a different cut process causing different dimensions , I just find that to be utter flannel . Totally agree...... Lazer, plasma and waterjet and should be no difference what so ever, in fact water jet cut would be cleaner as no slag generated Most of us could cut it out with slitting discs and a grinder and still keep it within a 2/3mm tolerance Even if there is a difference with the processes surely their jig for clamping and welding remains the one constant that should show up differences to be alterec before welding fully. Sorry I don't get it, even exchanging for a correct chassis will never compensate for the hastle, self doubt and time lost, you have my sympathies regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 All I can say is that that rings true with many comments I have heard over the years regarding Richards chassis and their attitude towards QC and fault finding. Certainly their attitude when I wanted a D2 chassis some years ago was dismal. Hopefully you get it sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 I hope my 200tdi chassis is ok! Took delivery just over a year ago and havent done much with it yet! All of these companies have their faults with communication.... so it was hard to know who to go for... I went with Richards as they have been in the game so long in the end. For every good report there was a bad one for nearly every company so much of a muchness i felt in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 1 hour ago, reb78 said: I hope my 200tdi chassis is ok! Took delivery just over a year ago and havent done much with it yet! All of these companies have their faults with communication.... so it was hard to know who to go for... I went with Richards as they have been in the game so long in the end. For every good report there was a bad one for nearly every company so much of a muchness i felt in the end. I would give them a call....better to find out now than 3/4 of the way through like me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 OK a bit of an update, part good and part bad. I pulled the crossmember off the gearbox and have lowered the gearbox down approx 10mm as per the crossmember I am expecting. To recap I already have a 10mm spacer under the RHS engine mount and I will plan to put one under the LHS too once I get them from Richards. This now gives me loads of space between the PS box and the timing case. In line with what others have, and also some clearance now above the gearbox to the seatbox. Some good news finally!! On 6/27/2022 at 6:20 PM, cackshifter said: So.... sorry I was a while getting back to you. The brake drum is 9mm below the chassis rail. I also took the liberty of putting a spirit level on the oil filler cap, and measuring from the bottom of that down to the top of the chassis rail on the offside (it is still straight at that point. That is pretty much dead in line with the oil pressure switch. That measured 466mm, so should let you see if the height of the engine is anywhere near right at the front. Using this measurement I checked the same, putting a flat bar across the oil filler cap at 90 degrees to the engine. I measured the other side as there is not a clear run down on the drivers side with the pipes and fuel pump etc. This gives me a reading of 458mm, so 8mm less than you. With the packer under the LHS engine mount I expect that to come up 10 mm and therefore be very close to what you have I then checked the fan height relative to the top of the rad as my fan is still too low to fit within the cowling. This give a measurement of 20mm below the rad pack. Can anyone easily measure what they have? The fan is part number ER2789 which checks out as the correct part. I think googled the fan cowl to see if I had the right one. Looking at the pictures for ESR2308 it looks like I do? The fan cowl indicates that I would be expecting the fan to protrude above the rad which mine does not. Next question I guess is what height should the top of the rad pack come to relative to the top of the chassis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 I've just checked the 90 300Tdi (factory built) here and the handbrake drum is 15mm below the lower main rail face for info . I'll check rad pack height later or tomorrow Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 3 minutes ago, steve b said: I've just checked the 90 300Tdi (factory built) here and the handbrake drum is 15mm below the lower main rail face for info . I'll check rad pack height later or tomorrow Steve Thanks Steve. I am beginning to think the handbrake drum measurement is partly a red herring as if the chassis rails are deeper overall at that point then the measurement there becomes less meaningful I have not yet bolted the front slam panel and surround in which I will do next so that I can bolt the radiator to slam panel brackets down which may squash the rubbers down a bit. All of this is going to help me but not quite get me there I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Right enough - it's a 90 so rails are shorter anyway , d'oh. I suppose the datum points are really from the various body mount points . Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 Yes I guess so. I am at the stage where I have the cab in a position I am happy with and the wings. If I can just get this fan in the right place I think I will have everything close enough to where it needs to be The rear all needs fab work to fit the tipper so I am not worried about that as I can put it where I want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Hi, Excuse the delay, I have been dodging the monsoon showers here. Its quite tricky to get the measurement you asked for with the fan cowl in place, and I don't really want to remove it until the weather improves. But, I placed a straight edge on the oil filler cap, from there down to the tip of the fan blades was 54.3mm, and to the top of the rad shroud 48.3. So the fan blades are about 6mm below the top of the radiator shroud. I also measured from the oil filler cap down to the top of the nearside wing - 24mm. I hope that helps, my fan is as far as I know the official Defender one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 10 minutes ago, cackshifter said: Hi, Excuse the delay, I have been dodging the monsoon showers here. Its quite tricky to get the measurement you asked for with the fan cowl in place, and I don't really want to remove it until the weather improves. But, I placed a straight edge on the oil filler cap, from there down to the tip of the fan blades was 54.3mm, and to the top of the rad shroud 48.3. So the fan blades are about 6mm below the top of the radiator shroud. I also measured from the oil filler cap down to the top of the nearside wing - 24mm. I hope that helps, my fan is as far as I know the official Defender one. Thanks. What that tells me is the fan is still way too low or the radiator too high. Unless I have the wrong radiator I just cannot see how I can get over this, equally don't see how that can be the case given it seems to line up to the slam panel and the cowl fit. The engine seems roughly right height wise now. I have checked and the fan on a Defender must be in the same place as a Discovery as the water pump is the same part. My fan is still at least 15mm too low to get the cowl fitted and I suspect more like 20mm for it to sit centrally. Will check your measurements against what I have tomorrow. I think I am going to have to borrow a mates 110 Defender and sit it side by side to try and get to the bottom of it. Just not making any sense to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Radiator mounts too high? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 4 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: Radiator mounts too high? Who knows. Don't trust anything on it now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 I have levelled the 90 the best I can and set the laser level up 30mm above the body waist line pretty much intersecting the centre of the lower top hinge bolt. Bolt on front corner of steering box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crashbanggg Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 On 6/26/2022 at 12:22 PM, L19MUD said: @Crashbanggg did they give you any measurements to check? No measurements, they owned up to the chassis being wrong pretty quickly. Sounds like pi$$ poor quality control is pretty rife there. Anyhow, sounds like your chassis must have been similar to mine, glad you've managed to get a new cross member sorted. Funnily enough, the garage I took mine for its MOT to yesterday told me that timing belt was just kissing the steering box on start up (I just assumed it was LR factory fit rattle) so he has spaced up the engine mounts to get it further away (not picked it up yet so haven't actually seen by how much yet). I was also never convinced by the fan/radiator fitment on mine so interested to see if the spacing has improved this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Top of chassis leg Sat on fan belt on top of water pump pulley top of front crossmember Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Do Richards have a fitters network? May be worth contacting one to get the lowdown, and ask what else may be wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 42 minutes ago, Crashbanggg said: No measurements, they owned up to the chassis being wrong pretty quickly. Sounds like pi$$ poor quality control is pretty rife there. Anyhow, sounds like your chassis must have been similar to mine, glad you've managed to get a new cross member sorted. Funnily enough, the garage I took mine for its MOT to yesterday told me that timing belt was just kissing the steering box on start up (I just assumed it was LR factory fit rattle) so he has spaced up the engine mounts to get it further away (not picked it up yet so haven't actually seen by how much yet). I was also never convinced by the fan/radiator fitment on mine so interested to see if the spacing has improved this. I would be interested to see the measurements you have to get the fan to fit given it sounds like you have the same poorly made chassis as me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 41 minutes ago, muddy said: Top of chassis leg Sat on fan belt on top of water pump pulley top of front crossmember Thank you for all of those. I can use those measurements relative to each other to try and see where things are not making sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: Do Richards have a fitters network? May be worth contacting one to get the lowdown, and ask what else may be wrong... Not that I know of - Once I have the new crossmember here and fitted I may just give Richards a ring to see what else may cause problems like the fan to see if they have any suggestions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 3 hours ago, L19MUD said: Not that I know of - Once I have the new crossmember here and fitted I may just give Richards a ring to see what else may cause problems like the fan to see if they have any suggestions This guy: http://marsdenautodevelopments.net/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Could you have the wrong rad and intercooler mounting box? They may have different lugs on the bottom where the pins sit into rubber grommets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted July 1, 2022 Author Share Posted July 1, 2022 23 minutes ago, Snagger said: Could you have the wrong rad and intercooler mounting box? They may have different lugs on the bottom where the pins sit into rubber grommets. Possible although I don't think so. I have a genuine 300tdi 90 being dropped off tomorrow morning so I can sit them side by side and work through methodically to see where the problem is, alongside all the measurements people have shared above. I will pull the fan and cowl off the 90 so I can check things carefully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 I think those steel frames will have matching dimensions between Defenders and RRC/D1, given that they use the same radiators and intercoolers, but I think they differ underneath. The pins are attached to some sloped brackets, at least on the Discovery/RRC version, and if the Defender type doesn’t have those brackets, just the pins, then they would make a Discovery frame sit high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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