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After a few hours of measuring, and then a few hours of modelling the rear of a P38 in CAD for building a rear bumper, I got the inexplicable urge to have a look at cheapo 3D scanners :glare:

Started by looking into the Creality Scan Ferret (~€320) and Scan Ferret Pro (~€400), looks impressive but reviews are mixed. The Revopoint POP 3 (~€580) has better reviews, but a good chunk more expensive, and seems to work best for small features, not larger surfaces. For larger surfaces the Revopoint Range 2 (~€820) seems to get good reviews, and now we're at triple the price of the Creality, and not really worth it anymore...

Anyone here have experience with either of them? My gut tells me the Scan Ferret Pro is probably a good bet, and for what I need it for it'll probably work just fine. But I might be missing out on something way better for not much more cash?

Some reviews I've watched:

 

 

I wonder if some of his gripes with scanning larger surfaces can't be fixed with some masking tape with patterns (to provide a feature to follow) instead of sticking the dots everywhere?

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I've seen some folks get good results using a whatever-generation iPhone that had the 3D facial recognition scanner in it, on the grounds that Apple has way more money to spend on this stuff than anyone else on the planet - although it's been pointed out the front scanner (screen side) has way better accuracy/resolution than the rear one.

Results also seem to vary wildly depending on what the size of thing is you're scanning Vs what the scanner was optimised for, Superfast Matt has some very good videos on 3D scanners:

 

 

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Well an iPhone costs more than one of these scanners, and I don't want an iPhone :SVAgoaway:
And from what I've found, the iPhone stuff is fairly low quality still, but probably already better than whatever hellscape photogrammetry produces.

And all of it is no doubt more than enough to get some rough dimensions, an idea of what all is in the way of stuff, and getting some body lines. And maybe later some adapter plates and such.

Been watching a few more review videos in the background today, really looks like the Creality Ferret Pro would be perfect for my use and what I'm willing to spend on it.

I'll check out the Superfastmatt stuff as well, thanks.

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That making for motorsport channel is pretty good, though he posts rarely, sadly. 

He once 3D printed an entire inlet manifold for ITBs, drawn in CAD from scratch.

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I have an Einstar Scanner - and it's pretty good for the money.

If anything, the software for the scanner is more important than the scanner itself.  The Einstar uses the same software as their more expensive Einscan scanners - and as such is also prety good.

Bear in mind (also) that you need a PC with a decent amount of memory for it to be useful.  I use my laptop with 64GB and it has coped with everything so far.

It takes a bit of figuring out - but you can get good results.

One of the issues that most of the cheap scanners have is the inaccuracy is cumulative.  I tried scanning a Chassis about 10 years ago - and although the scan looked OK, when I tried to turn it into a CAD model, it was obvious that it was twisted & deformed by about 15mm at the opposite corner to where I'd started.

The Einstar seems to manage about +/-0.5mm on any two points per metre apart.  It's still not perfect but +/-3mm on a chassis is a lot better than +/-15mm.

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38 minutes ago, simonr said:

One of the issues that most of the cheap scanners have is the inaccuracy is cumulative.  I tried scanning a Chassis about 10 years ago - and although the scan looked OK, when I tried to turn it into a CAD model, it was obvious that it was twisted & deformed by about 15mm at the opposite corner to where I'd started.

That's definitely good feedback! Probably would help to do it in multiple scans and not one big scan?

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11 minutes ago, elbekko said:

That's definitely good feedback! Probably would help to do it in multiple scans and not one big scan?

That would help - and the software generally has tools to automatically splice scans together.  While this is normally used so you can scan both sides of an object, it equally works for side by side, so long as both scans contain a couple of reference points for alignment.

One of the mistakes I made at first was confusing resolution for accuracy.

If you set very high resolution, say 0.1mm - it just records lots of points, filling up memory very quick.  If you set a lower resolution, say 2mm, the precision of the location of the points is just as good, just fewer of them.

Now I tend to do a low res scan of the whole of the object and multiple high-res ones for things like mounting centres - then stitch them together at the end.

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The Creality CR Scan Ferret looks surprisingly good - and half the price of mine.

Being able to use a phone as the capture device would be very useful for getting in & around vehicle bits.  Mine has a long umbilical to my laptop but it needs mains to power the scanner with a chunky power brick at the laptop end.

I'm quite tempted to buy one - my only hesitation is the lack of storage in a typical phone.  One of my raw scans was over 600GB.  Maybe it does something clever to compress the data?

A while later... Having watched a few videos about it, the CR-Scan is limited ot 2000 frames per scan, or about 60 seconds of scanning.  While this doesn't give enough time to walk around a whole vehicle, you could split it up into multiple scans & stitch them together.  The Einstar is only limited by how much storage space you have.  My 600GB scan took several hours.
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This is one component from that scan - an engine from a Willy's Jeep. 

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Yeah, I think I'll order a Ferret Pro, unless someone chimes in with a "OH HELL NO!" soon :P

I haven't seen a reference to that limit yet, is that only for mobile or attached to a computer as well?

The Einstar looks really good, but it's a good chunk more expensive than I feel like paying for it, and the required computer specs feel a bit painful, although I guess my big laptop could probably handle it - even though it's only an i7 7700k (top of the line in 2017...).

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We had a boat 3D scanned for a cover at work. I've no idea what they used but as commercial I expect expensive. To be honest it took them as long to scan as the guy with a tape normally does, it cost twice the price and didn't fit. Now I appreciate there's a lot of variables but I guess all I'm saying is at a minimum your going to be checking the scan with a tape at which point you need to question the cost.

Mike

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9 hours ago, Stellaghost said:

Not to be outdone by you scanners  I thought I would share my 3D scanning /recording system..........

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had pretty good success with this........lol

regards Stephen 

That's what I've been doing. But when there's half an hour+ between where you're modelling something, and the object you're measuring... it gets old really quickly to have forgotten a measurement. Or trying to balance 3 straight edges next to a tape measure. Or trying to figure out a compound curve.

4 minutes ago, miketomcat said:

We had a boat 3D scanned for a cover at work. I've no idea what they used but as commercial I expect expensive. To be honest it took them as long to scan as the guy with a tape normally does, it cost twice the price and didn't fit. Now I appreciate there's a lot of variables but I guess all I'm saying is at a minimum your going to be checking the scan with a tape at which point you need to question the cost.

Mike

Yup, will definitely be double checking. But verifying a few simple to measure dimensions vs hours of mis-measuring, I know what I'd rather to.

We'll see what it does, the Scan Ferret Pro is on its way from 3D Prima, including a can of the matte spray.

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31 minutes ago, miketomcat said:

We had a boat 3D scanned

I used it to scan a replica Roman boat (which was used in Indiana Jones) in order to make a cradle to support it on a motion platform.  It's owners were a bit precious about it and we only had to boat for a couple of days filming.  I went to their yard to scan it - then we had accurate measurements to build the rig & internal structure for lights, camera etc, knowing it would all fit when it arrived at the Studio.  The compound curves of the hull - and that none of the internal beams were particularly straight would have made it near impossible to measure with a tape with the required accuracy!

I do often have to survey structures (quite often boats) and for me, this has been a game changer!

 

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12 hours ago, elbekko said:

Yeah, I think I'll order a Ferret Pro, unless someone chimes in with a "OH HELL NO!" soon :P

I'll be very interested to know how you get on.  I almost ordered one last night - but realised I'd need to upgrade my phone to work with it.  Apparently, mine (S10) is too slow / old!  If I factor in the cost of the phone, it becomes less attractive.

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Just now, simonr said:

I'll be very interested to know how you get on.  I almost ordered one last night - but realised I'd need to upgrade my phone to work with it.  Apparently, mine (S10) is too slow / old!  If I factor in the cost of the phone, it becomes less attractive.

I'll definitely post up :) I have an S22+, which should be fine for it. But realistically I think I'd be using either my big laptop (that has Fusion on it), or my Surface (for portability). We'll see.

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2 hours ago, simonr said:

I used it to scan a replica Roman boat (which was used in Indiana Jones) in order to make a cradle to support it on a motion platform.  It's owners were a bit precious about it and we only had to boat for a couple of days filming.  I went to their yard to scan it - then we had accurate measurements to build the rig & internal structure for lights, camera etc, knowing it would all fit when it arrived at the Studio.  The compound curves of the hull - and that none of the internal beams were particularly straight would have made it near impossible to measure with a tape with the required accuracy!

I do often have to survey structures (quite often boats) and for me, this has been a game changer!

 

To be fair with you as an operator it's likely to be more accurate in the first place, that and the interpretation of the model into a cover has a lot of room for error.

In the instance of the Roman boat I'd just take a fibreglass splash mould.

Mike

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35 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I'm watching with interest although so far this is more my budget:

https://en.openscan.eu/

Which does at least look like it's a decent enough idea for small parts.

I've tried photogrammetry before, without much luck. Structured light adds a much needed element to the process that just pictures can't really provide.

Budget-wise, if this thing saves me a couple hours of faffing about, it'll be paid back (if I work instead, that is :ph34r:).

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2 hours ago, elbekko said:

I've tried photogrammetry before, without much luck. Structured light adds a much needed element to the process that just pictures can't really provide.

Budget-wise, if this thing saves me a couple hours of faffing about, it'll be paid back (if I work instead, that is :ph34r:).

That’s the thing - you have to put a fair drive on your time and not just be stubborn or cheap.  Good tools save an awful lot of time and wasted effort or materials, so can pay for themselves surprisingly quickly, especially if you use them often.  

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On 3/1/2024 at 6:53 AM, miketomcat said:

We had a boat 3D scanned for a cover at work. I've no idea what they used but as commercial I expect expensive. To be honest it took them as long to scan as the guy with a tape normally does, it cost twice the price and didn't fit. Now I appreciate there's a lot of variables but I guess all I'm saying is at a minimum your going to be checking the scan with a tape at which point you need to question the cost.

Mike

A different department had part of the building scanned..... and got one of my gas alarm panels 40mm smaller in all directions (its about 400x300x200) :lol:. Our in house folk can do it to about 1mm. Max of 3mm in terrible conditions. 

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I've been thinking about this for a while now..... I'm still in Stellaghost's camp, got pads full of notes drawings and dimensions from different projects and alot of that is just the part of getting it into CAD to design things 
Been off sick today lol disturbed a wasp nest last night getting some vegies from the garden 17 stings on my right leg and others elsewhere.... so I have been doing some more CAD modeling for a little project (1980 Harley Davidson chopper/boober) I've got Youtube playing on the side and its "Making for Motorsport, Review of the Range 1" this got me curious enough to see how cheap I could get a scanner...... long story short after justifying the purchuse, I've got a Range 2 on the way 

In just this bike I have 4 days of measuring and modeling and I'm only 2/3rds done.... unfortunatly alot of what I do is road going stuff and to get pre-build approval from the authorities you need drawings.... so I'm spending alot of time on each project just modeling components etc.... my justification was if I worked the 4 days its paid for lol 

Now I just need to learn how to work with mesh in Solidworks lol 

 

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28 minutes ago, De Ranged said:

In just this bike I have 4 days of measuring and modeling and I'm only 2/3rds done.... unfortunatly alot of what I do is road going stuff and to get pre-build approval from the authorities you need drawings.... so I'm spending alot of time on each project just modeling components etc.... my justification was if I worked the 4 days its paid for lol 

Yeah, precisely this is why I ordered a scanner. It should be delivered today, might get to try it out on the car soon.

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Well, it arrive yesterday. Just tried my first scan, to keep with the Land Rover theme, I scanned my Lego Defender.

Used it connected via USB-C to my Surface Pro 8 for now, will try later with the WiFi bridge, as the cable did get in the way a bit.

No special prep was done, just turned on the light above the dining room table.

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I'd say that's pretty good for a first attempt!

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Tried it out on a car yesterday (using @Escape's P38 as a model because it doesn't have a rear bumper on it yet), this thing is brilliant. Now to learn how to work with the software... especially that GOM Inspect stuff that Making for Motorsport uses, appears to no longer be simple to download.

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Again, not perfect, but a hell of a lot better than what I could manage with a tape measure.

Tracking went fairly well, it mainly got confused at large flat surfaces (side body panel), and the towbar mount tube/bracket also confused it a bit, but I think that's mainly due to light.

I also took a quick scan of the other side, and that didn't go quite as well, but still not bad! Again, I think light was important here, as this side was less well lit.

image.png.d953a70edecac812d3f4d786c590b5c7.pngke

Maybe a ring light like this mounted behind the scanner would work. But just pointing a few portable lights on the underside already helped a lot.
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Now to learn how to use MeshMixer and such...

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