expat69 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 I would be up to participate in such events... Don't have the skills nor the budget to drive a challenge vehicle.. but the Disco would like to try something harder than play day.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 James, I would be more than happy to Marshal. I would also like to say it's nice to see someone being so proactive and looking to fulfill a huge niche market. How's the finger by the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Don't have the skills to drive a challenge vehicle. No-one else lets that stop them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted October 25, 2007 Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 Guys, thanks for the info so far, overall the idea looks promising as Shires have proved in the past. Looking favorite then is no classes, no adding up of scores and no prizes (except maybe most stuck, biggest vehicle, most times recovered (There you are Puggy now i am thinking about you) etc or fun prizes rather than most punches/highest score) Emphasis on having a go, having fun and not trashing vehicles, all to be expected, coupled with meeting new people and making new friends etc. I am still tempted to run with a silhouette rule to discourage the special challenge trucks from coming and make the event seem less daunting to standard vehicles. i know what its like to be in a scrutineering line up with a standard truck and be surrounded by traybacks/lockers/ etc etc and its not always encouraging. There will definitely be a tyre rule as i need to preserve the site. MOT and TAX will also be requirements as per my current events and my insurance requirements. David - your offer is appreciated thank you. The current plan is to look to run a 'Fun Challenge' once every 3 or 4 mths starting with the back end of Jan 08 (oops), although if the ground is wet that may well slip to later in the year. As regards to not been able to do much without a winch i think you may find the guys that did the J33P 2 day event and the Scott Williams memorial 2 day event with me earlier this year would probably disagree. many didn't have a winch but had a great weekend. In fact the guy leading the scores on Saturday (Redben off here) didn't have a winch, if he had come back and competed on Sun he would have prob won std. Lewis, ref: If what Mark (Ofarmer) and bishbosh say about the normal JST events is true (I.e. its mostly fun, everyone shares info and generally has a laugh), then why would an easier one need to be run? Why not come along and watch an event and draw your own conclusions? I think Darth has hit the nail on the head with his post in reply. i aim to make the 'normal' challenges suitable for vehicles with a winch through to the fully modified and try to put enough out to keep both extremes occupied. typically 12 of the 40 punches are drivable without a winch and they increase in technicality to the last 5-8 requiring both winches to achieve (total 40 punches) If i were to try and make them also suitable for someone in say a disco (Sorry Puggy its those pesky LRs again) with 235/75s and no winch then its hard going, it can be done and has been done (Scott Williams Challenge) but its a compromise. I was trying to come up with something to lead people who have no winch and wish to get more from their vehicle but without been put off by the 'extreme' vehicles also turning up. Hence restricting 'Extreme' vehicles from turning up! If you have an extreme vehicle and want to learn more then one of the best ways in my opinion is watching others and see how they do things, then take the bits you want from that. Marshalling is a good example of where you get to see loads of whats going on both good and bad. Maybe i could call it ' Daily Driver Challenge'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treebloke Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 If i were to do another AWDC event I would probably just enter the normal ones again and come last. My interest in this thread stems from wanting to do a JST event Me and the Mrs compete in mainly JST's and some others, we are both grandparents (to the same grandkids) and its unlikely we will ever win an event but that really does not bother us. We like the events because, although they are competetive they are still fairly laid back and if some one who does want to win arrives at a punch the same time as us then they can carry on and we will wait. Our first few events were a bit of an eye opener and fortunately Si R and many others took the time to show us the ropes. I thought our bob tail RRC would be ok but it soon started to get battered so I have now built a hybrid with all the goodies to fill a 4x4 magazine which you could drop out the back of an airplane. Its a bug that gets you and one winch leads to two, then bigger tyres followed by hardened half shafts then the roll cage and on and on. But I guess it all starts with some where to drive your standard Land Rover only to find that if you bolt some thing on it will go a bit further or faster or safer then twelve months later it weighs two ton and has cost around 10/15k and you have to trailer it because you know your still gonna bust some thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redben101 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 sounds like a great idea, would everybody not enjoy it more?? as it concentrates more on the ability of the person to drive the car and make decisions on routes to drive instead of just relying on winches and aids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted October 25, 2007 Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 would everybody not enjoy it more?? as it concentrates more on the ability of the person to drive the car and make decisions on routes to drive instead of just relying on winches and aids Yes and No i reckon, if you do the former you dont need to use the aids as much therefore there is satisfaction from that, theres also alot of satisfaction from getting a vehicle to somewhere you wouldn't have thought possible with what ever aids/ingenuity you have to hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Yes, count me in for marshaling (I might even compete !) ................... all things being equal, it looks like I will be OK for the 24th as well (its dependent upon sorting the valve guides and Paul fixing the Jeep rear axle ... again) Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1G UP Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 I'd be interested in that and a few mates,1 winch most people would have or even 1 winch per team of two? any tyres cause those insas are cheap and i'm not buying another set for your comp! locking diff ok but would need proof of etc Land rovr axles only , as we'll all break shafts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Giving prizes that aren't first past the post is a very good idea, and if done well can really encourage newcomers - for example the marshals can nominate people for bits of quality driving, teamwork, well executed recovery, lateral thinking, spirit of the event, or just getting their vehicle somewhere you would think impossible without lockers'n'winches'n'simex etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrode Finger Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Giving prizes that aren't first past the post is a very good idea, and if done well can really encourage newcomers - for example the marshals can nominate people for bits of quality driving, teamwork, well executed recovery, lateral thinking, spirit of the event, or just getting their vehicle somewhere you would think impossible without lockers'n'winches'n'simex etc. Gotta agree, i did an old shires punch day a few years ago, with the fancy dress added, for comic relief, with my ex in her boggo disco, we won a prize for spirit of the event, did awful on the punches, but did well on the fancy dress, it was a black tie event!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon_s Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 I'd be up for this.... With the tyre rule, are you looking at restricting sizes or 'aggressive-ness'?? Cos I'm only running tiny little tyres on the Jimny, but they're Recip Trials which are pretty aggressive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8CAMEL Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Gotta agree, i did an old shires punch day a few years ago, with the fancy dress added, for comic relief, with my ex in her boggo disco, we won a prize for spirit of the event, did awful on the punches, but did well on the fancy dress, it was a black tie event!! i remeber that one as i set it up Dan turned up as a rambler paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8CAMEL Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 so if i understand this right i can come and play in my bulk standard series then. paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted October 26, 2007 Author Share Posted October 26, 2007 SimonS I am also thinking NO SIMEX or equivalent and no tyres bigger than 33". Paul - if it fulfills ^^^^ i dont think it did last time i saw it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon_s Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Cool I think that means I can come and play... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milemarker Type S Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Hi guys, Reading this tread with great interest... I get the impression that some people seem to think that if you can't win then there is no point in taking part? I have just started 'competing' at the CSW events (I use the term 'competing' in a very loose sense in that I am not exactly setting the competion on fire!!) I know fully well that, at the moment, I have absolutely no hope of winning or even being placed- however this does absolutely nothing to stop me enjoying myself! I personally like the fact that there are some punches that I know I cannot even attempt- part of the challenge is working out which ones to attempt and which one to give a wide berth (and it is entirely up to me if I have a go at some of the more difficult punches and if I damage my truck that was my choice)- and hey if you do get a bit stuck then everyone should be prepared to pitch in an help you out- surely that is all part of the learning process?- Ok if you really cock up then you should expect some good humored p1ss taking as you are dragged back out!! I personally like the idea of classes- and having a standard class with no winch allowed. There are an awful lot of vehicles with no winches that would love to take part. It means that they can turn up knowing that there will be a fair amount of punches that they can attempt and it encourages the person setting out to ensure that there are a good mixture of punches that can be driven and those that need winches (Sorry James- I know that this makes your difficuly job even more so!)- I personally have seen a number of punches that with a bit of thought can be driven but that people just winch as it is on the face of it easier! I would definitely be up for some easier style challenges (work committments allowing) but I think that there still needs to be a challenge (i.e. some difficult punches) and an element of competition (i.e winners and runners up- and some comedy awards as well- especially a worlds slowest winch award which is something I can definitely win!!)- It is up to those taking part to make sure that some friendly rivalry does not get in the way of helping those around you to learn and see how to do things better next time. Oh yes and finally- I personally hate special stages... mainly cos I am C@ap at them... Shrek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 when i get my first land rover, i will want a non damaging 'punch challenge' style event where people will be in it for the fun of it not to win prizes, by all means have prizes for muddiest landy, team player etc, but not for 1st 2nd 3rd. should be an event where people will muck in to help those that cant, get to the punches and recover them if they need it. and it should be open to all (hmmm....maybe just land rovers ...but im biased) so that a factory vehicle could go, as well as a fully modified comp truck. and both have a good time. Ross ps (1st post on here , although i do lurk on LZ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted October 29, 2007 Author Share Posted October 29, 2007 Ok so i have had a stab at what its going to consist of. thank you for all your points raised and whilst i have tried to take in all the views i also cant please everyone! I am going to run ‘Standard vehicle’ punch challenges. That is to say that those entering should be in, as near as Standard vehicles, rather than the full on Modified Winch Challenge vehicles that attend my ‘normal’ Challenges. The aim of the day is to have FUN, not damage anything, meet new people and enjoy yourself. Ideal as a either a family outing or just come along with some mates. The day will be designed to allow you to take your vehicle to what ever limit you wish; safe in knowledge that there is help and if needed recovery on hand. There will be upto 40 punches set out over a variety of different terrain and they will vary in difficulty. The most difficult requiring a winch to enable you to get to them. You should be able to expect to drive ½ to ¾’s of the punches. The punches will be attached to objects about the site and the punch card will be attached to your vehicle (using a cable tie). To achieve a ‘punch’ you must get your vehicle to the punch and mark the card with it to prove you were there. Another way of thinking about it is as a Pay and Play day with a greater purpose. There will not be prizes for the most punches or points achieved instead we will be concentrating on presenting prizes for other categories along the lines of: 1. Most recoveries! 2. The worst stuck! 3. The most Helpful team on site, etc There may be voluntary special stages at times throughout the day that would consist of special tasks that may include the likes of blindfold driving, theoretical recovery scenarios, or other similar minded stages. There will NOT be a class system but there will be some vehicle restrictions. These are primarily: 1. Your Vehicle must have current road tax, Insurance and an MOT. 2. Maximum Tyre size of 33” tall (255/85R16 equivalent) 3. No Simex Style tread patterns, eg FEDIMAs, INSA TURBOs etc. 4. All vehicle occupants must be seated and wearing a seat belt. 5. All vehicles must have suitable front and rear recovery points. (A standard fitted towbar is adequate for a rear recovery point. Front recovery points should be a minimum of JATE rings on each chassis leg if a dedicated suitable winch point has not been fitted. Lashing eyes are NOT acceptable. All tow hitches, whether front or rear mounted, should be bolted to the vehicle (not welded) and must be fitted with spreader plates.) 6. All vehicles are to have a first aid kit in them for the duration of the event. 7. Kinetic Energy Recovery Ropes (KERR) are NOT permitted. In addition your vehicle must comply with 4x4Adventures Rules and Regulations. The Days will typically run with a vehicle check starting at 0830, a drivers brief at 0900 then time is yours until the end at 1530/1600hrs. You should aim to bring your own lunch/thermos’/food for the day along with suitable outdoor clothing including a good set of waterproofs. A change of boots/socks are advisable. The whole day is non-competitive and all punches/sections are totally voluntary. If you feel you may be interested in taking part in an event or even coming along to watch then please drop me an email at: info@4x4adventures.co.uk . Depending on the feedback will dictate the way forward and frequency of events. To date the first event is planned for the 29 March 2008. All the events will be run in the Devon/Somerset area. Again thank you for your feedback to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 James, A good setup IMHO. Better watch out for Boggers though!! Let me know when you organise one and I'll do my best to marshal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 To date the first event is planned for the 29 March 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Booked that one down inthe diary James - so you have your first marshal BTW have you ever thought of stealing some of theideas our European Bretherin use? The 'penalties for using a winch' one is somewhat detremental to the ground and needs a lot of marshals but some of theother ideas are sound... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 Cheers David you are booked! At the moment i am thinking minimal rules = minimal marshalls and see how it goes! on another note could you bring that paperwork along on the 25th please. Can you get Boggers in 33" or smaller? Maybe the rule should be changed to nothing more agressive than an MT, contact us for clarification if your concerned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Marshal no 2 booked in now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ101 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 David on another note could you bring that paperwork along on the 25th please. OT !! That would be useful, or can you bring to 7Sisters next week, James, subject to date check, you also have the first entry !!! with Daughter as co-driver, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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