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to auto or not, that is the question.


simon red90
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auto box in challenge truck  

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  1. 1. auto box in challenge truck

    • yes
      32
    • no
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so after a lot of thoughts fron a lot of people, i'm considering putting an auto box in my truck. more so for reliablility issues. what do the audience think. currently my truck is a pumped up 200tdi but i'm widening my horizons to more powerful motors and boxes. possibly toyota?

DISCUSS!!

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I don't know.

I don't know what you are planning to do with it and what the priorities of it will be.

I would probably stick to manual as it can offer more control and efficiency but an auto can be kinder to the transmission and be more reliable over the long run.

Given the engineering facilities and a big budget I would fit a lockable torque converter between the engine and clutch so that manual gears can be selected, the clutch released and then the drive connected via the converter. The converter would multiply the torque and smooth the drive. The lock up in the converter would then remove the slip losses for efficiency and engine braking. The manual gear box can then have a wide selection of ratios with the converter 'filling in the gaps'.

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If you're looking at more powerful engines, why do a transmission swap now? Most of the Rover stuff would either be a pain to convert or not really up to the job.

As for auto/manual, I reckon manuals are more combat proof - they will still work with only one gear, with no oil in or the wrong oil in, when they're red hot, etc.

Autos are kinder to transmissions but then you can modulate your right foot (although I realise that's considered unsportsmanlike) to the same effect with a manual.

Personally I don't like autos off-road, maybe you do. If you're so unsure about this you have to put it to public vote I have to ask why you'd be doing it in the first place if there's no clear case for it in your own mind.

But then I'm a filthy heretic with a manual V8 :rolleyes:

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Guest mortus

auto all the way, its so much better for drive assisted winching, no more slipping the clutch.

easy to maintain. the ZF is pretty hard to break.would you be using a viscous coupleing aswell instead of a manual diff.

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I would always go the auto option. I never ment to, but had to buy what I could find when I changed my RR and bought on condition and couldnt find a decent manual. That was 6 years ago, before that I never kept a motor more than 18 months!

Since then I have never wished it was a manual and cant bear to part with it.

For me it gives more control and is softer on the rest of the drive train.

If your not sure why not borrow one? I'm sure there must be someone on here who is local to you with a auto that will let you have a play.

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I want to go auto but I don't think the Tdi has the power to cope with one so until I decide which engine I want to use I'll have to stay as I am.

There's two reasons I want to change, Firstly the auto is so much easier on the rest of the drive train, They seem to have a certain amount of cush in them which helps reduce the shock loading through the axles.

Secondly when winching really technical stuff with a lot of grip using a manual you have to slip the clutch to avoid abusing the transmission too much. With an auto you just ease your foot down for the required amount of power/drive assist and away you go, If it starts to spin, just back off a bit.

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i have gone yes for the auto option as its better for offroad (assuming its for the truck in your avatar) but i think on a tdi it will be too gutless now on a td5 it auto would be ideal. IMHO

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reckon the 4.2tdi with a 4speed auto from a Landcruiser would be amazing in a LR. Bags and bags of torque, a sound to die for and tuning potential up to 350bhp without too many probs (they are rated for 350bhp in the marine enviroment).

Engine is heavier than a 2.5tdi (although i dont know figures) and as it is a straight 6 it is a bit longer so you wil be right up against the bulkhead.

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After converting my 90 to auto it took me less then 10mins off road to realise I had absolutely made the right decision. All that control without slipping the clutch when winching or rock crawling etc. That was however with a V8.

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I have driven off road with 3.9V8 and currently 200TDi autos.

Apart from the severe lack of engine braking the auto wins hands down in my opinion. - Winching, crawling no clutch to burn also hill climbs are a case of stick it in drive and boot it - the gearbox does the rest.

I was quite surprised to find that off road, apart from the waterproofness (of a standard 3.9EFI before Fridge pipes up :P ) that the TDi and the V8 were indistinguishable other than long climbs at 7S where the V8 was better.

For challenge environments, TDi auto is the way to go IMHO.

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Auto, no question,,

The hybrid is auto,, (OK with a V8 in front of it) and took 2 Min's of its first event to feel the difference !!

whereas the rangie is manual, (200Tdi) with crawler low gears,, and took 2 Min's to feel the the auto is so much better,

Done more drive line damage in 2 events in the rangie, than in 2 years in the Hybrid (and that's not being gentle with the V8 :o ). so what's that telling you !!

As i said to start with,, Automatic, no question

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Auto, no question,,

The hybrid is auto,, (OK with a V8 in front of it) and took 2 Min's of its first event to feel the difference !!

whereas the rangie is manual, (200Tdi) with crawler low gears,, and took 2 Min's to feel the the auto is so much better,

Done more drive line damage in 2 events in the rangie, than in 2 years in the Hybrid (and that's not being gentle with the V8 :o ). so what's that telling you !!

As i said to start with,, Automatic, no question

I have an auto in a v8 bobtail, and yep, absolutly superb. But I have broke 3 diffs in the last year. :( So I think it depends on what engine you are running diesel or petrol

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I have an auto in a v8 bobtail, and yep, absolutly superb. But I have broke 3 diffs in the last year. :( So I think it depends on what engine you are running diesel or petrol

V8 auto, no drive train breakages whatsoever, in near 3 years (:ph34r: whisper mode ) Tdi Manual, 2 HD half shafts, + CV joint in 3 months !!

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auto all the way, its so much better for drive assisted winching, no more slipping the clutch.

easy to maintain. the ZF is pretty hard to break.would you be using a viscous coupleing aswell instead of a manual diff.

Er No - Actually in competition use the Standard ZF 4 speed is not that strong at all.

Internal Breakages are quite easy, comp safari usage is very different to challenge truck usage

Also if the box is at all "Leaky" a good hot ZF dumped into deep cold water will suck unspeakable muddy watery fluid inside and wreak havoc.

If you have the money speak to David at Ashcroft Trans - as they can offer a selection of internal upgrades that make the box far far stronger, and tell them what you will be doing with it - and they will build it for that stylee of use. Properly set up and sorted it will protect much of the driveterain from some massive shock load that a manual can get, and give you all sorts of off road control, engine braking can be tweaked via torgue convertor chnages. They can however sap power, and sometimes you'll find the forward and into reverse and forward and reverse slower than a Manual. Manual can lso give extar engine braking / control, but with the extar pedal to have to think about. Its a 50/50 choice, neither is perfect both have pros and cons, but the auto pros are a strong calling :)

3 speed Auto - yep very strong, but a tad agricultural and limited engine options for easy mounting

Nige

OH PS Carry a spare starter - if that goes on an Auto you are scr***d :lol:

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Simon, go auto - you'll love it (I do). Its not great on the road but you can still move at reasonable pace (I'm not known for hanging around) and, at the end of the day, its not made for that.

Tdi and auto works well. Mine ran as a bog standard 2.8 behind auto and performance was adequate although I will be tuning to ensure I can beat the V8's ;) I've driven a well tweeked 200tdi auto disco and I really liked that - more powerful than mine but not the same low end torque. If you can find all the bits I'd seriously think about going down that route.

Engine braking is an issue but you can get round it. If you want to spend a little more then an underdrive maks it an awesome proposition as you get stunning engine braking but its slightly damped so you're less likely to loose traction than with a manual - I have never driven anything or been driven in anything that has such good control on decents (including manuals with crawler boxes and autos with differant diff ratios). I'd offer you a go but there might be issues at the moment ;)

Do it, you'll love it. B)

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Helllo mate,

Im in Flore Nothants if you wanna test drive an auto,its an 88" hybrid coiler,35" tyres 4:11 diffs

its a V8 but should give you some idea wats wat,cant let you break it though,doin the Anglian winch challenge this weekend :P

Seriously if your getting a lot of breakages from right boot exess an auto is the way forward in my opinion.

Cheers Nick

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I love my Manual 200 TDI Sv............

I love being able to use the gears for cornering at reckless speed offroad...........er and on road :ph34r:

And really struggled to bite the bullet and go auto ......

Now i have i am very pleasantly suprised.

At speed (Morroco OBC last year) the auto was fantastic and great fun to play with.......

Back in the uk, the grip and control it offers in those "must not break the surface" moments and driving rocks etc is excellent :D

Changing from drive to reverse is so fast it's embarassing.

For what you do Simon and what it is going to cost to try it? i would go auto on the back of the old oil burner and try it?

You can always sell it :lol:

Jim

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For what you do Simon and what it is going to cost to try it? i would go auto on the back of the old oil burner and try it?

You can always sell it :lol:

Jim

on the back of the old oil burner. like it.

gonna take a test spin in an auto and see how it goes, but for the reliability issues and sympathy to the truck i think i'm gonna go auto with lowered ring and pinion gears.

if it works well great. if its too underpowered, i'll gut the lot and find something more up to the job, and if i dont get on, back to clutch burnin' manual!

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