AWDC Howlin' Wolf Winch-Off

[simonr]

I've thought about this a bit now.....

The two figures that are most commonly banded about for winches is the no load speed (which 8274's generally do best on) and the max pull (which generally favors Hydraulics).

In practice, we are not using either extreme on challenges or anywhere else - so the figures may not be that useful.

What might be interesting is to see how different winches compare pulling different loads a set distance and measuring the time taken. This will give a fairer comparison of the different types of winch with more typical loads.

I suspect there might be some surprises in the middle with winches which are not particularly powerful nor particularly fast scoring better than one might expect.

Si

[dollythelw]

The two figures that are most commonly banded about for winches is the no load speed (which 8274's generally do best on) and the max pull (which generally favors Hydraulics).

ahhh...... I knew there was a design rule I was supposed to follow... doh!

[Paul Wightman]

Best we don't forget the Howlin' Wolf criteria......................... operate under 6' of water!

[najw]

It's not my fault it rains... a lot!!

[Boothy]

Boothy, prehaps we should put you on the sledge!!

Snow White you little Minx, be carefull or you might get "porked again" in your tent and you wish you were playin with them Dwarfs again, they're more your size love .

"Sod the sledge, Boothy would be a good test for any winch, lie him down with the bow of a effing great tree above him a try to stand him up by winch,(no double pulls allowed). As long as his right arm can reach the hog roast and his left can reach a pale of ale, all should be well. "

Alan will your blue bandaged heap last that long? or is another one punch wonder day?

Neil your winch off is turning into a BITCH off, before they even get there.

[Peter]

My 2 penny's worth.

The winches are designed for self recovery, not just dead weight pulling. (Which is the market their sold into)

Why not have a 300 foot slope, angle slope to be decided, depending if you can find one that long.

Max 150 foot of winch rope each. Vehicle must be winched from start line ( hence steeper the start the better), and must draw rope fully back onto drum before starting second half of hill. Everyone to start and finsish in the vehicle with all kit stowed.

Would therefore be a test of the winch, driver, bitch and their chosen anchorage. 'A winch off'.

Whilst obbserving all the rules such as gloves and winch blankets.

Could even stick a 1000 point punch 3/4 way up, just to give them something tehnical to aim for.

Maybe even stick it in an event as a special stage.

[white90]

Peters Idea would seem the most suited to testing a winch

rather than risking damaging equipment with some of the other suggestions.

[simon_s]

Best we don't forget the Howlin' Wolf criteria......................... operate under 6' of water!

Yeah there was loads of deep water at the last event.

This was only meant to be a bit of evening/hog roast/beer fueled fun! It's all getting a bit serious again...

[najw]

I think pretty much all the relevant things you have outlined can be achieved with a series of less intensive tests that have already been detailed.

I don't see how quickly you can stow your kit etc equates to winch performance or statistics and the drivers and co-drivers will be fully tested the following day.

As I said before this is a chance to see how the currently emerging winch technology compares.

This is not part of the competition so punches/points etc are not required.

There have been some useful ideas so far and hopefully more to follow from which we will draw up a game plan for the 'event'

My 2 penny's worth.

The winches are designed for self recovery, not just dead weight pulling. (Which is the market their sold into)

Why not have a 300 foot slope, angle slope to be decided, depending if you can find one that long.

Max 150 foot of winch rope each. Vehicle must be winched from start line ( hence steeper the start the better), and must draw rope fully back onto drum before starting second half of hill. Everyone to start and finsish in the vehicle with all kit stowed.

Would therefore be a test of the winch, driver, bitch and their chosen anchorage. 'A winch off'.

Whilst obbserving all the rules such as gloves and winch blankets.

Could even stick a 1000 point punch 3/4 way up, just to give them something tehnical to aim for.

Maybe even stick it in an event as a special stage.

[carl hurst]

Whilst you load of (iv'e got the biggest and best) Wallies are pratting on about your winches, I'm sneaking in and eating the Hog and stuff you!

Plenty of room

I'me with you chris,

Carl.

[pigster]

for the dead weight pull - - can the weight be several crates of beer, and the winch that does it the quickest - or should I say the operator of said winch, can drink it.

I think pretty much all the relevant things you have outlined can be achieved with a series of less intensive tests that have already been detailed.

I don't see how quickly you can stow your kit etc equates to winch performance or statistics and the drivers and co-drivers will be fully tested the following day.

As I said before this is a chance to see how the currently emerging winch technology compares.

This is not part of the competition so punches/points etc are not required.

There have been some useful ideas so far and hopefully more to follow from which we will draw up a game plan for the 'event'

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Hmmm

Interesting

I think you could consider differing "Winners" as oppossed to an overall winner ?

Some winches are super quick, some superpowerfull, some you can drive assist some you can't

My winch set up is hugely powerful, and not that quick, and drive assist is 'tricky' (read next to impossible ), but for a Marshals truck well suited,

I have yet failed to get anything out, although some come out in bits would love to test the pulling power of mine against other units ??

Rather than go for <shudder> the 'ultimate' winch think of differing winning classes that shows the strengths of all types ?

Nige

PS I may be up for the drive to try this

[saley]

Lets make one thing clear - this is for FUN !!!

I'm not sticking my head above the parapet to start a civil war, if I was going to do that I could think of far better causes

Destruction testing the evening before a championship round doesn't seem very sensible to me either.

As I said, I envisage an opportunity for interested parties to gather round and observe what each others kit can do in a relaxed atmosphere.

So, suggestions so far appear to be:

1: Static pull of dead weight on skids across level ground

2: Drive assisted winch up a long steep slope

3: Spool out and recovery of heavy object

Sounds good but i think we need some sort of endurance test as well.

1: Static pull of dead weight on skids......................Power

2: Spool out and recovery of heavy object..............Speed

3: How far you can pull it in 15 minutes...................Endurance

4: Drive assist on long hill......................................Control

IMO this would be a fair test, fun to watch and participate in and covers everything you would want and need in a winch

[Snow White]

There are some people who can't keep a vehicle running for 15 minutes! How do you expect them to winch for 15 minutes non stop?

[LR90]

Not sure if one could be secured for the event by why not use a sled of the type used for tractor pulls where the load moves towards the front the further the sled is pulled increasing its resistance. All working on flat ground.

Like the tractor events furtherest pull is strongest winch but with timings to markers at intervals along the pull you can also get a feel for winch performance under different load conditions.

Some winches might get the best time to marker 3 for example but never reach marker 5 while a PS driven MM might happily pull the sled all the way to marker 6 but have had the slowest times by far to all intervening markers.

Stikes me this way every winch will have 'won' in some respect and the debate about which is best may continue unimpeeded but with more facts to back up the arguments

[najw]

why not use a sled of the type used for tractor pulls where the load moves towards the front the further the sled is pulled increasing its resistance.

From my distant recollection the principle of the tractor pull sled is that as it is pulled forward the concrete weight moves along the sled towards the tractor.

This has effect of reducing the leverage applied and increasing the downward force of the weight onto the rear wheels of the tractor, thus effectively making the sled heavier.

The principle of the competition was how much power you could produce and therefore what distance you could travel forward before the weight of the sled got so heavy that is couldn't be pulled any further.

I stand to be corrected, but if this is the case then it could not be applied to a winch test as the leverage element would be missing.

[roguevogue]

The sledges i've seen have a weight over a set of wheels on the rear of the apparatus and the front sits on skids, as it is pulled forward the weight moves from over the wheels progressively forward onto the skids, therefore making it harder to pull.

If you move the weight onto the axle of the tractor you only stand to increase the traction available to tow the sled.

[zardos]

Sounds good but i think we need some sort of endurance test as well.

1: Static pull of dead weight on skids......................Power

2: Spool out and recovery of heavy object..............Speed

3: How far you can pull it in 15 minutes...................Endurance

4: Drive assist on long hill......................................Control

IMO this would be a fair test, fun to watch and participate in and covers everything you would want and need in a winch

How about an additional test

5. Rope replacement test.

Ropes can break on competition and you might need to replace it.

The format for this would be something like:-

From rope fully spooled on.

Fully Spool out

Disconnect the rope and drop it to the ground (the person must let go of the rope)

Pick up the rope and re-attach

Spool in until fully spooled on.

Any tools to assist the rope change can be at hand.

To make this more fun it could be held axle deep in a bog or on a steep slope (realistic conditions)

[saley]

How about an additional test

5. Rope replacement test.

Ropes can break on competition and you might need to replace it.

The format for this would be something like:-

From rope fully spooled on.

Fully Spool out

Disconnect the rope and drop it to the ground (the person must let go of the rope)

Pick up the rope and re-attach

Spool in until fully spooled on.

Any tools to assist the rope change can be at hand.

To make this more fun it could be held axle deep in a bog or on a steep slope (realistic conditions)

I would do the test but it may be unfair to the electric boys as my winch run's at 240ft per/min no load on tickover

that would mean 150 ft in 37.5 seconds

say electric 70 ft/per/min that would be 175 seconds

that would give us 137.5 seconds each way 275 seconds,

overall 4 minutes 35 seconds longer re-attach the rope.

[glaggs]

As this is supposed to be a bit of friendly fun around the camp fire I think the task/s need to be completable in less than 5 mins or folk will get bored and not join in. The twist off comp took a couple of mins per vehicle! Some of the ideas above are great but are getting a bit serious and involved and would take all day to get 40 vehicles put through their paces.

[dollythelw]

Saley - dont be using that engineering mumbo jumbo, figures and maths have no place in winching

[Boothy]

Lets make it real fun and do it without the engine running.

Let me know your new times then Saley and yer 137.5 seconds could end up as minutes if your arms will last that long winding it on.

Bring it on!

[dollythelw]

cool - eco-friendly winch challenge, are they common in the UK?

[Adrian Turner]

Winch off..... should be good viewing from the Hog roast, i'll bring a chair

[D9OSV]

I like the idea of it being fun..................

Scientific test ? Whats the point? everyone will still argue anyway

I know what works and what does not. If we want to be realists then lets look at the results from all of this years events worldwide? It is quite eye opening.

I have just spent the last week competing againist mechanical winches that pull at over 20mph without slowing.

We beat beat them all all apart from one..........?

But ironiclly he was beaten by an almost standard 8274 ?

What does this prove? F*ck all, as will this contest. But i will be there laughing and joking and enjoying the crack.

Dead line pulls have no intrest for me, a vehicle that can not drive assit is as pointless as Gorden Brown

Hydraulic users will always go on about there amazing ability to pull all day, and electric users will always talk about there winches flexability in all situations. Result? No different to where we are now.

I hope that all take this as the fun it is supposed to be.

Adrian grab me a chair

Jim