Malcyt Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Hi everyone, I'm a complete newbie here. Pickup up my 19yr old Defender 90 a week or so ago and am preparing to do some play days in the next few weeks. I've sorted out recovery points with Jates front and rear. I now need to invest in a rope or strap....What are the pros and cons of the following.... Pro Comp Recovery Strap. 3in x 30foot. 30,000lb rating. vs Kinetic Tow Rope - 8 metre x 24mm (2 ton Working Load Limit, 12 ton Minimum Breaking Load) They seem to be about the same price but wondered if anyone had any recomendations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrRob Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Neither. Get nylon tow ropes and use a nylon bridle to distribute the weight e.g. http://www.firstfour.co.uk/p0/ropes/191384.htm Strops have no give or stretch and KERRs require special care so not for novices IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail4x4 Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 but ropes take up a lot of room, I keep several strops of different lengths, often you need a long strop but sometimes a short one makes it possible due to some obtruction. as said forget the kinetic for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I Tried to wind up HFH on this but he would not bite. An old issue of the Hants and Berks LRC magazine stated Rope over Strop. However a more recent comment from HFH (as a HBRO rep) was Strops are better and preferable to rope, there is a thread on here somwhere but I am not good at using the search engine here. Marc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest noggy Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 towing strop over a rope anytime. kinetic ropes are plain dangerous, even in the hands of someone who is experienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suggs Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Strop every time, you need to know what your doing with a kinetic rope or you will get hurt... and make sure you get decent shackles... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Rope for me by preference between normal nylon rope and a strap NOT kinetic though ! Strops are OK but have no give in them so are very harsh on the recovery points, especially when snatching. Ropes give a slight "cushion" reducing the shock loading. The only problem with ropes is storage space, straps are much easier to stow away and take up less space. I've started using an ARB recovery strap as a compromise between the two, it is easy to stow but is slightly elastic so it absorbs shock loading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I have a Superwinch recovery strap, this is slightly elastic as well, so takes the sudden snatch out, but it's not a Kinetic, I have a proper Kerr rope & bridles for when I need it, plus rated shackles not less than 3.25tonne green/blue or red 3/4inch diameter pins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick w Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Hi everyone, I'm a complete newbie here. Pickup up my 19yr old Defender 90 a week or so ago and am preparing to do some play days in the next few weeks. I've sorted out recovery points with Jates front and rear.I now need to invest in a rope or strap....What are the pros and cons of the following.... Pro Comp Recovery Strap. 3in x 30foot. 30,000lb rating. vs Kinetic Tow Rope - 8 metre x 24mm (2 ton Working Load Limit, 12 ton Minimum Breaking Load) They seem to be about the same price but wondered if anyone had any recomendations. kenetics are banned from some play sites and many people think there unsafe which i tend to agree with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinny Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 i think a decent strop takes a lot of beating we had a 11ton tracked dumper broke a track whilst in the middle of a pond in about 2 feet of slurrry/mud after a debate and me refusing to use a large wire bond we opted for a set of 10ton brothers and a large strop around the chassis i expected the strop to break, it took me 2 hrs to pull the dumper out of the pond using a 21ton excavator. so i would say a strop takes a lot of beating at least it goes white before it breaks and like others have said always get decent shackles,chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nas90 Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Like everyone else has said forget the kinetic far too dangerous I use a strop for general use / winching and ordinary rope for a pull. Invariably whilst marshalling I always winch vehicles out, far less damage on both vehicles, doing a snatch pull damages the transmission and LR transmissions are really very fragile compared to other makes. If winching invest in a tree strop. My rope sits coiled on the passenger front floor of the nas easy to get in a hurry and takes up little amount of room and a muddy floor easy to clean on a rubber matted defender. Get some training with some forum members, if you fill-out your profile we would know where you are and who could help you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Always buy rated recovery gear - a big shackle might look impressive and be cheap, but can be very dangerous, in the same way that a length of rope or strap in the wrong hands/used in the wrong situation can be. If you buy (for instance) a 3-ton rated strap or rope, then everytime you pull someone out of a stuck situation - you are putting strain on that item close to it's limits, so it's life span will be limited. Min 3-tons for a tree strop, min 4-tons for a towing strap (5 is better) - same for rope. There are Bow shackles and 'D' shackles - again these should be rated, and ideally you should carry both as D-shackles are more limited than Bow shackles. Almost everybody buys a KERR rope - thinking that they can do anything in any recovery situation, but this is certainly not the case. KERR ropes used wrongly are very dangerous and if they break - stored energy means that someone or something is likely going to get damaged. Whatever recovery gear you buy - familiarise yourself with it's safe use. I have - 2 x 3/4" rated (3.25ton) D-shackles 2 x rated (4-75 ton) Bow shackles 2 x 3-ton tree strops 5 - metre (7-ton) tow strap 4.5 - metre 12 ton limit nylon tow rope 5 - metre 12-ton limit KERR rope Just my opinion - I'm in no way an expert. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Snatch recoveries? With rope or strop? Errr, no thanks! Using a rope or strop to recover a vehicle the slack should be taken up gently before applying the load. If it wont come out like that then winch. Run and hide if someone gets a KERR out!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J@mes Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Slightly off topic, but if using a bridle to connect two recovery points to one tow strop/rope is there an issue with the sideways forces that will be acting on the recovery points as they are pulled towards the centre of the vehicle where the main tow strop located on the bridle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 You should use a long enough bridle that those forces are reduced to minimal levels. Ideally the legs of the bridle should be longer than the distance between the recovery points so that more force is concentrated along the lines of the chassis than is being used to pull the two recovery points together. hth Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J@mes Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Thanks Mark, that's just what I was after! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave g Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Snatch recoveries? With rope or strop? Errr, no thanks! Using a rope or strop to recover a vehicle the slack should be taken up gently before applying the load. If it wont come out like that then winch. Run and hide if someone gets a KERR out!! its all good and well but have you ever tried winching a landy thats sunk up to the door bottoms and have no where to anchor the winch vehicle to it dosent happen then you are left with te only option of snatching the stuck vehicle out which i have done many time with no damage to my 90 or the stuck vehicle its just down to where you atach the rope as for what to get you wont go far wrong with geting a good rope and a good strap they both have there own up points but kerr ropes are a big no no i had one snap on me the results where i needed a new rear door and a new windscreen not to mentoin a change of under wear it missed my head by an inch or two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I'm going to run the gauntlet of the forum here and say that there is a place for KERR ropes. If you find you need to 'snatch' a recovery (as above, straight pull has failed and no winch / no winch anchor) then you're better to snatch with a KERR than a static strap or rope - the instantaneous forces on the recovery points will be lower. It goes without saying that recovery points should be in top condition and all equipment is tested or rated to the dynamic loads and a bridle used to distribute the load if possible, but the momentum of the recovery vehicle can be an asset and the KERR captures this momentum. In the wrong hands, deadly and it's certainly not an automatic option, but it's another tool in the kit to use at the appropriate moment. They're also very handy for towing a rolling load on the road, where you don't see big forces but a bit of 'give' as the tension is taken up at junctions etc is very welcome. As for selling KERR ropes without a licence or competency test, that's a different matter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcyt Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 Thanks everyone for the useful feedback.....certainly a minefield I'm now off to purchase suitable equipment and will ensure it's all correctly rated. As for Kerr....I'll leave that for now....with strops , bridle, shanks and my winch I should be ready for most things and if all else fails I'm sure one of you guys will help me out. Thanks agsin for all the feedback. Malc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 There is a big difference between towing straps and recovery straps. The major difference is the material the strap is made from. Polyester straps are towing straps and are not recovery straps. Towing is defined as slowly taking up the slack. The limiting factor on applied load will be traction, i.e strength of the ground below the wheels and friction between the tyre and the ground. Nylon straps are recovery straps. Recovery is defined as taking up the slack at a reasonable speed. The strength of the ground and friction between the tyres and ground is not such a limiting factor as in a towing situation. It is 'odd' that we refer to 'nylon' towing ropes and no one would consider the use of a polypropylene or a polyester rope in the 4 x 4 world Nylon ropes and straps have more extension then polyester straps and are more suitable for recovery situations Polyester straps have less extension then nylon and is more suitable for towing straps, tree strops and winch extension straps. All straps should be clearly labelled with material as well as length, date of manufacture etc. If a strap is not clearly label as nylon the chances are that it is polyester, or worst still polypropylene (highly unlikely though). Many companies, websites etc fail to clearly state what material the straps are made from. Nylon = Recovery straps, KERR etc Polyester = Towing straps, tree strops, winch extension straps Regards Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidlandy Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 a vid i took of a kerr recovery could had been worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Thanks Mark, that's just what I was after! use a minimum of a 2metre long bridle, sometimes I use my 4metre strops instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rambo19 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 a vid i took of a kerr recovery could had been worse. I thought the rear crossmember was gonna snap!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Notice how many people rushed over to see if the drivers head was still intact after the kerr went through his rear window......!!!! Thats why i tend not to use them, i would say though, that if using a rope or strop, take the strain before pulling, don;t let them snatch...... thats when any damage will occur if it's going to..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Just a thought Nylon ropes and webbing is used in climbing for extension and shock load abilities Polyester ropes are used in rope access work and prussiking where minimal extension is required and shock loading is avoided Polyester webbing is used in seat belts. Stretchier nylon seat belts would not be so popular due to great risk of head butting the wind screen/steering wheel. Regards Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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