Winch or rear locker??

[SteveG]

So with protection almost done, bar a couple of Sumo bars that I need to get, and suspension done for now - I'm going to add either a winch or an ARB rear locker - but I'm not sure what to do first.

Funds mean that this is all I'll probably do for next 6-9 months - so given that what should it be....

Take the 8274 that I brought back from the states and fit new motor, albrights, upper and lower repair kit, buy a Devon 4x4 8274 bumper, two batts and X-Charge kit - probably about 1000 pounds or..

Buy a rear ARB locker, have it fitted, pick up a Viair compressor, tank etc from US - 750 pounds for parts, not sure how much it costs to fit an ARB?

Also for this should I fit uprated half shafts? If so I'll need a pair of shafts and new flanges, so add another 350 quid

So what do you reckon? Which one to do first??

Or I could forget both for now and fit rear trailing arms and front 3-Link - decisions decisions decisions

Cheers

Steve

[honitonhobbit]

Sell the 8274 to Les

Buy an EP9, fit a Bowmotor with a decent battery

Buy a TrueTrac

It will get you just as far for a damn site less, with less breakage and less downtime

[SteveG]

Sell the 8274 to Les

Buy an EP9, fit a Bowmotor with a decent battery

Buy a TrueTrac

It will get you just as far for a damn site less, with less breakage and less downtime

Picked up 8274 for 210 pounds so even after I've serviced, bought new motor and solenoids it will still be less than an EP9.

Personally prefer manually locking diff rather than truetrac. but thanks for the suggestion

Steve

[white90]

winch/bumper as the locker will just get you further into a situation of being stuck if it goes wrong.

the 8274/bumper will lose little or no value.

I'll happily put tthe 8274 together for you when you come down to collect the rack

PM sent re prices etc

[BogMonster]

A winch gets you out (usually)

A locker doesn't (necessarily)

that was my thinking when I was wondering what to spend on what in what order

[JST]

buy a winch and bumper and run twin batteries as per white 90s/mine/Exmoor Cop setup.

just a winch will mean you are still std class if you compete, a locker will prob mean modified straight away even without a winch.

i would be tempted by a Southdown bumper though, better than D4x4 IMHO.

[honitonhobbit]

Picked up 8274 for 210 pounds so even after I've serviced, bought new motor and solenoids it will still be less than an EP9.

Personally prefer manually locking diff rather than truetrac. but thanks for the suggestion

Steve

So you make a decent profit form Les AND he gets a deal (;

The EP9 is a far better general purpose winch, quicker under load, easier and cheaper to fix on the very rare occasions it goes wrong, far less drain on the battery set up, lighter, more compact, more powerful, still has external brake, looks nicer

As for a TrueTrac, does the job with no need for you to lose concentration on the job in hand, strong, cheap, needs no external power source (that will go wrong), low impact on the drive train, doddle to fit...

But each to his own - don't let the facts detract from what the heart wants

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

1st Winch

then later when funds allow (2nd) Locker

IMHO

Nige

[Mo Murphy]

I would have thought that if winch use is light, there wouldn't be a need for a twin battery set-up, at least not immedietly.

The pennies saved would go a good way to an ARB locker and that needn't be complimented with half-shafts.

Unless you're really going to hammer your Landy in a series of winch challenges, your usage will be relatively light and would permit the above compromise allowing you to upgrade your installations as your budget allows.

Just my slant on it

Mo

[honitonhobbit]

Spot on that man!

Mo - do you know anything about Vauxhall Brava Diffs? Apologies for the hi-jack Steve

[will_warne]

1st Winch

then later when funds allow (2nd) Locker

IMHO

Nige

I'd second that and keep the 8274.

My advice is do the winch propperly now and then you'll have a good setup later on. I'd also think about getting one of Jim Marsden's drums; for £150 odd they're not expensive and give you a smaller diameter longer drum. Then get the bumper made to suit. If you get it right now then you won't need to spend any more money later.

The problems with a locker is it will get you a lot further off road but this will often mean you get stuck far worse and there's no chance of getting yourself out. Also, it will put more stress on the drivetrain; uprated shafts and some bling driveflanges are a good move.

More suspension mods should come later IMHO; the problem with suspension is its something you really want to take a lot of time over to get it right. That's quite hard on an everyday vehicle.

[Mo Murphy]

Spot on that man!

Mo - do you know anything about Vauxhall Brava Diffs? Apologies for the hi-jack Steve

Bugger all Luvvers, except that its from the same family (UCS Isuzu desig.) as the Frontera so they "should" be physically interchangable, particularly from the earlier leaf sprung variety of Frontera. Whether the diff ratio is the same is another matter.

Sorry too Steve

Mo

[cols110]

Personally I`d fit the lockers first, unless you are planning on doing a winch challenge, as chances are if you go anywhere, lanning or play sites, you probably be going with some one who has a winch or who can recover you by other means. But with out the lockers you are more limited to where you can go.

Winches also spend 1/2 their time recovering other people, at least with the lockers you get the value.

[white90]

Good points Col

I ruined a pair of waffles letting other use them

I never actually used them myself before they were snapped, now I'm a little more wary about loaning all my gear out.

Winching people out I'm ok with as I'd hope they'd assist me if I should need it.

[honitonhobbit]

Bugger all Luvvers, except that its from the same family (UCS Isuzu desig.) as the Frontera so they "should" be physically interchangable, particularly from the earlier leaf sprung variety of Frontera. Whether the diff ratio is the same is another matter.

Sorry too Steve

Mo

I thought that they would be the same but they aren't! I have been told Trooper (early) but they are different as well. The casing on the rear looks like a Shogun/Pajero. Oh well...

Sorry Steve

[honitonhobbit]

I'd second that and keep the 8274.

My advice is do the winch propperly now and then you'll have a good setup later on. I'd also think about getting one of Jim Marsden's drums; for £150 odd they're not expensive and give you a smaller diameter longer drum. Then get the bumper made to suit. If you get it right now then you won't need to spend any more money later.

The problems with a locker is it will get you a lot further off road but this will often mean you get stuck far worse and there's no chance of getting yourself out. Also, it will put more stress on the drivetrain; uprated shafts and some bling driveflanges are a good move.

More suspension mods should come later IMHO; the problem with suspension is its something you really want to take a lot of time over to get it right. That's quite hard on an everyday vehicle.

But why put on a bigger drum. The only time you need a bigger drum is if you do what Jez does. If you don't it's a pointless waste of money. If you winch in places with few anchor points you use extensions, because putting more layers on a drum just makes the damn thing less efficient unless it is hydraulic. And why keep the 8274 when low load speed is not of the essence, why not concentrate on VFM?

Why should a locker cause more 'strain on the train' unless you are using it for a purpose not intended. So you can't turn corners with a front locker in - live with it. Use the winch instead or fit an LSD. Constantly beefing up the drive train just hides poor planning and poor driving practice - sorry to say it but that's the fact.

Again, why should suspension take time? It's simple. Make it strong, make it reliable, make it do the job as best as possible, make it VFM, keep your CoG low and your flex high and make it easy to fix. Nuff said

[LR90]

And where's Michele with the toy centre option?

What would you recomend for the rear Michele and how does it stack up price wise? I'd be open to converting my rear (oh err missus) to toy and moving the ARB to the front if in the beardy man's terms it gives me VFM.

[white90]

re:

But why put on a bigger drum. The only time you need a bigger drum is if you do what Jez does. If you don't it's a pointless waste of money. If you winch in places with few anchor points you use extensions, because putting more layers on a drum just makes the damn thing less efficient unless it is hydraulic. And why keep the 8274 when low load speed is not of the essence, why not concentrate on VFM?

I totally aggree I actually will put a shorter rope on the drum to maintain the power and use extensions were required...

[Mark90]

Sensible thing as most people have said if winch first (and you have that anyway) as it will get your out rather than more stuck.

Having said that I always said I'd go for locker first as I much prefer to drive something than winch it if at all possible.

As it happens I'm doing both almost at the same time, although it will be one event with just locker (and standard 10 spline shafts) and no winch simply due to time constraints.

[white90]

re this bit:

So you can't turn corners with a front locker in - live with it.

very difficult as you can't steer in loose ground it normally ends in a vehicle/tree incident.

at Torington recently winching was the only way to go as lockers or not made bugger all difference as there was no grip whatso ever.

[honitonhobbit]

re this bit:

So you can't turn corners with a front locker in - live with it.

very difficult as you can't steer in loose ground it normally ends in a vehicle/tree incident.

at Torington recently winching was the only way to go as lockers or not made bugger all difference as there was no grip whatso ever.

Exactly

[white90]

back to the question

the winch has served me more than the lockers

so that is what I'd fit first and did so personally

the lockers I fitted at the same time then the shafts then finally the CV's

The underdrive has saved the clutch many times over.

[honitonhobbit]

And where's Michele with the toy centre option?

What would you recomend for the rear Michele and how does it stack up price wise? I'd be open to converting my rear (oh err missus) to toy and moving the ARB to the front if in the beardy man's terms it gives me VFM.

I am just been pricing up a Toy third member/Longfield 30 spline CV conversion as suggested by an American friend. Seems a sensible way to go.

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Its looking 50/50 Steve …. toss the coin mate

I haven’t gone to lockers yet with the following reasoning,

1) Use aggressive tyres and you would be surprised just how far you get without lockers …… Nick Rogue Vogue is a good example.

2) Like Tony rightly says ………. too much effort with twin lockers in usually ends up with a panel incident ……… or a broken axle / driveline.

3) Go in as far as you can without lockers ………. once you start to spin, stop ……. break out the winch and let it do the work …….. that’s what you paid the money for. Rigged properly a winch gets you out pretty fast.

4) I am considering changing the axles ……. Toy , or Volvo …. anything but effing Rover.

Before Tony takes the pi$$ …….. my MM now does up to 40Ft/min under full load (17000lbs calculated) and up to 240Ft/min in respool mode B) ……….. HFH knows what I’ve been up to.

The Jez example is a good one ……… Jez carries 700ft of extension ropes to get him across the Ladoga bogs ………. and that’s done against the clock & bogged to chassis level………. His winches do about 75ft/min.

Ian

[white90]

no micky taking from me

look forward to seeing the MM in action again.

pray tell what sort of pump has bee added?