Mo Murphy Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Tony and Les are quite right regarding the principles of this forum. I do however feel that David has been singled out quite unfairly and I don't interpret his posts as containing any more spam than some of the other businesses whose owners are members on this forum. David recently spent an hour on the phone with me sharing his wealth of experience on laning in the Pyrennes for an upcoming forum trip (even though his tea was on the table and his good lady was giving him earache) and has answered several pms VERY fully on the same subject. As a good forumeer helping other forumeers make the most of a forum trip, I'll give him 5 stars. Just my tuppence worth Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MogLite Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Here is a fair comprimise for the vendors on the board. Their signature should contain an obvious link to their website, and preferably offering a forum discount - Just like Simonr and x-eng. If you were to add something like ----------------------------------- Commercial Website - X-Eng Then it would be obvious when people post if they've got a commercial interest in what they are posting about. It would work also for people wishing to "pimp" their service companies such as auto-electricians etc. It should be a line or two in the sig maximum though, big flashy sigs, and the mangement can see it over my shoulder The mods never seem to have a problem with Simonr and X-eng, so he must be doing something right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyodyne Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Condolences to the family and friends of the guy and hope the lad recovers soon. However: How many people are killed or seriously injured playing football, rugby or even golf? Compared with most passtimes, especially 'adrenalin sports' ours is pretty safe and very few people get badly hurt or killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 I thought the new site was an appalling design that put forum posters at the bottom of whatever list of design priorities they had. After my first visit I deleted the bookmarks. I don't really care WHY it's crashed, I'm just glad that whatever fool signed off the site design as suitable for publication is suffering pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyodyne Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Was in a similar predicament a few months back downsizing from a Ford Explorer. Hyundai Terracan - lousy on road, pretty good off. Godawfull performance Kia (forgot its name but the big one) - Good towcar, good on-road but very plasticky Ended up with a Honda CRV. They have just introdoced a new version so you might get one of the old models cheap. The diesel 2.2 is the one to go for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 This site will remain free from any outside commercial interests, spamming, advertising, sponsorship, or otherwise. It seems to be to be quite a large step from commercial interest/sponsorship to valued contributing (and I'm not talking financially) board members mentioning their products. The members own it, and that's how it will stay for the forseeable future. How many of those members have taken issue over Davids so called spamming? It seems to me that only mods/admin have a gripe about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 This site will remain free from any outside commercial interests, spamming, advertising, sponsorship, or otherwise. The members own it, and that's how it will stay for the forseeable future. If people prefer other sites, then that's their choice.It would be a big mistake to copy another website. Les. I only speak for myself ,but whether or not a particular site carries advertising has no bearing on my patronage.Although I check many 4x4 sites on an almost daily basis, I am only currently registered here and Pirate for the same reasons. High quality tech and friendly banter,hmm. I have no trouble ignoring the advertising content on Pirate Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagent Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 yep, i thought it was carp aswell.... hope when it comes back its better than that.. the 'old' one was alright though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 There's quite often spam posts that appear on here that never gets seen by forum members due the activities of the moderators and Admins. The level of spamming (and whether or not it is spam) is usually set and agreed upon by us, and as such there will always be a level where there will be disagreement as to what that level is. Short of us asking you all if something should be allowed or not - we have to do what we think is best, and generally that is by far the best way to handle any problems with this website. Unless someone cares to think of a better way of doing it, then I'm afraid that's the way it'll be for the forseeable future. We will bend over backwards for the majority, but not the individual that doesn't like the way this website is run. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 I think that what is important is to keep overt advertising of product off the forum. A number of members have used the forum to advertise commercial services in the past and, IMHO, that is a little like fly posting in so much as it is advertising but using someone else's media to do it. Recently, a new member joined and his first post was in the Getting out there forum. It read something like this: I cannot seem to post on the classifieds forum, have been trying for days. Anyway, I have these for sale. They are ideal for your Landy and cost $$$. Call or visit the website. Now this is a guy who, after 2 days of trying to post in the classifieds, has not managed to read the rules regarding classified posting. His only post and "contribution" to this site has been to market his stuff. Is that the sort of post we would like to see all the time? Not me. I am sure lots of companies would regard 5 minutes registering and advertising their wares as time well spent in terms of advertising budgets. Those who sell stuff and post on the forum are appreciated for their valuable and knowledgeable input but there does need to be a line drawn somewhere. Perhaps some wider discussion and revision of the rules is needed? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 It was that well designed that you couldn't even change your own emal address in your profile! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 and i've literally just got this in my inbox: Dear Land Rover Owner readers,As you might have noticed we've decided to switch off the old Land Rover Owner website, we apologise for the short notice but it was due to circumstances beyond our control. We don't underestimate how annoying this is or the difficulties it may cause you, however we are building a replacement site and have learnt a great deal over the last 3 months from our old website to make sure the new site serves the LRO community better. While the rebuild takes place we've set up a temporary site with a forum at www.landroverowner.blogspot.com so we can all carry on communicating. The existing url www.lro.com is being re-directed to this site so you can continue to use your existing links. All the best and thanks for bearing with us while the improvements take place, Mark Wilson, Publisher, Land Rover Owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Tony and Les are quite right regarding the principles of this forum. I do however feel that David has been singled out quite unfairly and I don't interpret his posts as containing any more spam than some of the other businesses whose owners are members on this forum.David recently spent an hour on the phone with me sharing his wealth of experience on laning in the Pyrennes for an upcoming forum trip (even though his tea was on the table and his good lady was giving him earache) and has answered several pms VERY fully on the same subject. As a good forumeer helping other forumeers make the most of a forum trip, I'll give him 5 stars. Just my tuppence worth Mo I don't think David has been singled out, the conversation has naturally broadened. As far as my views go David is a much valued member here but we still need to be mindful of the principles and ethos behind this place. Still, I'm rather pleased that we can have discussions like this and not feel the heat from the breath of this or that sponsor or magazine backer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 ^^Me too^^ Although I have to say I rarely visit the place nowadays as it seemed to have become a haven for a lot of idle chatter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 The mods never seem to have a problem with Simonr and X-eng, so he must be doing something right Ref this go and look Simon doesn't advertise/spam his wares services at every opportunity most times his products/name is mentioned is down to customers very pleased with products/services. Ashcrofts make no mention of their services, just provide useful information for nowt, and get posts saying how good the services/products the supply are, real world not advertising budget speak. As the saying goes you can't please all of the people all of the time. And I for one am very aware of that. I fully agree with Les/Chris and other mods/users on here. unless the majority of the 2000 member suddenly want a change even if that means voting off me I'm happy to go with that decision. Pirate is a very different site to this being owned as a money earning interest. other UK sites are loaded with adverts/sponsors messages or even dictated to as to there running. thats where we differ and long may it remain so in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 It would be fair to say that this forum was set up with independance and freedon from ALL commercial interest as it's USP. If there were a forum constitution as such then it would centre around that very principal. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 It should be a line or two in the sig maximum though, big flashy sigs, and the mangement can see it over my shoulder The mods never seem to have a problem with Simonr and X-eng, so he must be doing something right Initially I would rather not have named examples, but if you want to see how we would like people to do it, simonr with X-Eng and ashtrans (Dave Ashcroft/Ashcroft Transmissions) are two good examples. Good service tends to recommend itself and I am sure both of them have indirectly (and sometimes not so indirectly) gained significant business from being members of this website without needing "oh and by the way I sell" posts all the time. Word of mouth from satisfied customers is the best advertising of all and both those chaps have got plenty of word of mouth from satisfied customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 I'm not registered on it but it does seem rather reminiscent of the sudden departure of another well known forum associated with a Land Rover magazine oh, say about eighteen months ago. Ahh the joy of true independence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Initially I would rather not have named examples, but if you want to see how we would like people to do it, simonr with X-Eng and ashtrans (Dave Ashcroft/Ashcroft Transmissions) are two good examples. Good service tends to recommend itself and I am sure both of them have indirectly (and sometimes not so indirectly) gained significant business from being members of this website without needing "oh and by the way I sell" posts all the time. Word of mouth from satisfied customers is the best advertising of all and both those chaps have got plenty of word of mouth from satisfied customers. ^^Spot on^^ 'Nuff said as far as I'm concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeryDisco Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Those who sell stuff and post on the forum are appreciated for their valuable and knowledgeable input but there does need to be a line drawn somewhere. Perhaps some wider discussion and revision of the rules is needed? I however have very little knowledge - and rarely is my input valuable. But I seem to be accepted as harmless. I would prefer to not have a line drawn through me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Tony and Les are quite right regarding the principles of this forum. I do however feel that David has been singled out quite unfairly and I don't interpret his posts as containing any more spam than some of the other businesses whose owners are members on this forum. I think Mo has this spot on, and ehoes the sentiments of others on here. Mods, we all realise you do a lot of work on here and that goes unnoticed, and you are certainly appreciated. Les, i think a couple of your coments have been a little strong, a one liner to a forumeer saying that they are basicallly spamming exerciseers is harsh and unwarranted. I was a little surprised by this: The members own it, and that's how it will stay for the forseeable future. If people prefer other sites, then that's their choice. I read this as, if you are a member of the site, then great, but if you don't like how the site works then find another one. Is that a fair interpretation or am i reading things wrongly? From a more general point, nobody has suggested for one moment that people should be allowed to pay the site for advertising or pay to support the site- as has been said a couple of time we all value what is a pretty unique place. however we ARE going to get commerical interests on the site and this site would be worse off if we didn't have people such as Si, David, Andy T etc etc perhaps it might be worth putting out a poll to all the members asking if everyone would welcome a slight change which would allow commercial parties to front up their products in return to discounts to members. non- partcicipating commercial parties would not be welcome as already (chris' example being particularily apt). to be honest we are almost at this stage anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeryDisco Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Taken off the Getting out there forum: If you want to advertise a COMMERCIAL IE AS IN RUNNING A BUSINESS Off Road Play /guided laning / expedition event on this forum please feel free to make a small (or large) donation to the forum running costs. This not a Pre-requisite of Advertising any events just a suggestion Just thought I'd bring that into the mix.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjojjas Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 its all a bit of a pain really. I started on LRO site when I was looking to but my 110 about 2 1/2 years ago. Got some good advice on the defender forum from some names I see on here and on difflock. Then the site changed and upset a lot of people (not me though, I thought it was fine) then this happens..... You can't help feeling that it alienates a lot of users though. I suspect it may get even quieter over there if this goes on. Fair point about the funding side of it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 I too rarely go on. I've been on today to voice my opinion.All I get is personal attacks. Being told that as a mechanic you don't know what your talking about.You are not allowed to tell the truth either. Oh well switch it of as there's a lot better forums with friendly helpful people about that really do want to help others. mike FOAK Knickers I can and do in certain places cause trouble in an empty house !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 I used the Series, Defender, and Disco forums a lot to answer questions that their members posted. I also linked a lot of tech threads on this site as well. Never did know why the original 'Green' site went down - it ran ok to me, and it seemed very popular. The replacement was awkward to get used to - posting links and pictures was difficult, and pm's went to the persons e-mail address, instead of staying on the website. The only forum I never liked was the Readers forum (I refer to it as the Chicken Shed), the god-awful drivel that sometimes got posted in there beggars belief! Still, hope the new site is up soon, there are some good brains on that website (or there was recently) Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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