3 Link ?...or what other options maybe ?

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Chris

Does anyone consider ground clearance when designing or purchasing this carp? We just had a 15 page thread on portals. Clearance folks !

Bill

Bill,

Say it like yer mean it

Serioulsy....Yep very valid point .....hence another vote for top mount not bottom, inc stronger / less strain on top methinks

Nige

[dirtydiesel]

Here are some appaling drawings of a 5 link system that could be used as a missing link system.

The blue "links" are fixed, the red one is (quickly) removable (ie on pip pins)

Even as a 5 link system it will allow very very good articulation due to the large seperation at the axle, as a missing link system it will travel massively, whilst still retaining very positive location in all plains.

[geoffbeaumont]

Dirty Diesel, I'm trying to get my head around why you only need to remove one of the top links to get good axle travel? I've a feeling I'm missing something obvious here...

[dirtydiesel]

If you removed both top links there would be no torque control bar to stop axle wrap, the prop would simply screw the axle around its axis until it snapped something off!

Removing one of the top links will allow the axle to flex very well, whilst still retaining good torque control.

[geoffbeaumont]

If you removed both top links there would be no torque control bar to stop axle wrap, the prop would simply screw the axle around its axis until it snapped something off!

Removing one of the top links will allow the axle to flex very well, whilst still retaining good torque control.

Won't the centre link do that? Ah...hang on, no centre link on your design. Knew I was missing the bleeding obvious

What about (going for the truly over engineered approach...) a six link design, essentially a three link with two extra removable bars for on road use? Or does three link not offer enough advantage over your design to make this worthwhile? Does it offer any advantage?

[BogMonster]

I wouldnt even call it welding,my 4 yr old daughter could do better than that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think most of the people on here would struggle to weld THAT BADLY!

You haven't seen mine

[dirtydiesel]

Won't the centre link do that? Ah...hang on, no centre link on your design. Knew I was missing the bleeding obvious

What about (going for the truly over engineered approach...) a six link design, essentially a three link with two extra removable bars for on road use? Or does three link not offer enough advantage over your design to make this worthwhile? Does it offer any advantage?

A problem you would come across 6 linking the front would be all the bushes "fighting" each other, at least 5 link offers good travel to start with.

The three link will offer similar travel to a missing link system, but the advantage of missing link is that you can "tune" the height of the remaining upper link so that you can make the most of the mechanical grip from the torque twist of the prop.

Eg: on a conventional front suspension setup the torque reaction is the same on both sides of the axle so that when the power is applied the rotation of the prop (transferring the torque to the wheels) will always lighten the wheel on the n/s (o/s on the rear) this means that under power one wheel will always have more mechanical grip than the other, by altering the separation of the remaining upper link you can almost completely remove this.

[Marc.be]

hi,

here are some pictures of a 3link system with the third link above the axle.

3 LINK

[GBMUD]

Is it just me or is there something wrong there? The third link seems to be there for effect only. Or is it a work in progress, awaiting new lower arms?

Chris

[Daan]

as for the french version: quest e ce cai?

In english: whats this?

I think the 5 link would bind, which I think is what dirtydiesel means, saying that it doesn't flex a lot, unless you remove the fifth link. But I wouldnt like to go that route myself. I think the 3 link with panhard, with the link at the top of the diffcase is the way to go. A shame most of us have got an engine in the way. I have considered filthy boys suggestion, and that is potentially the most effective way of achieving more travel, but hard to achieve.

Also, bad handling of the vehicle as a result of a 3 link is BS to me: That means you didn't get the geometry right.

Daan

[northernchris]

as for the french version: quest e ce cai?

In english: whats this?

I think the 5 link would bind, which I think is what dirtydiesel means, saying that it doesn't flex a lot, unless you remove the fifth link. But I wouldnt like to go that route myself. I think the 3 link with panhard, with the link at the top of the diffcase is the way to go. A shame most of us have got an engine in the way. I have considered filthy boys suggestion, and that is potentially the most effective way of achieving more travel, but hard to achieve.

Also, bad handling of the vehicle as a result of a 3 link is BS to me: That means you didn't get the geometry right.

Daan

Did you get some tube sorted Dann????

[Mark90]

Is it just me or is there something wrong there? The third link seems to be there for effect only. Or is it a work in progress, awaiting new lower arms?

Chris

I think those lower links have only one point of attachment to the axle (the bolt underneath the axle), although in some pics it does look like two.

[Daan]

Did you get some tube sorted Dann????

not yet, I am mainly involved in landrovers going out of line while also in the middle of an international house move. Someone entered me for argyl at the same time and who am I to say no? 3 links are last on my agenda at the mo, but I do reserve the right to vent my opinion....

Daan

[filthy boy]

as for the french version: quest e ce cai?

In english: whats this?

I have considered filthy boys suggestion, and that is potentially the most effective way of achieving more travel, but hard to achieve.

Also, bad handling of the vehicle as a result of a 3 link is BS to me: That means you didn't get the geometry right.

Daan

Daan

I don't think the bearing pack in the axle tube would be too difficult.

Alternatively throw everything out, move the engine and build a 4 link!

FB

[FridgeFreezer]

Just to clarify Gon2Far / White Peak / QT:

White Peak is Andy Dawes who developed the 3-link kit

Gon2Far is Nigel Aldred who developed the leaf-spring kit, he found Andy and offered to help develop & sell the 3-link kit as he was already established as a suspension co. I don't know how much is public but basically Nige has stopped trading / sold up (I'm not privvy to the exact business details of it before you ask) to CPC (used to be Chris Perfect, now run by his next in command as CP has retired)

QT are now selling White Peak 3-link.

CPC are now selling the Gon2Far leaf spring kits

The reason the Gon2Far website is down is that I was asked to take it down while all the above is sorted out, it was just 100x easier/cheaper than trying to sift out all the different products/sections while everything moves round. I've not heard anything from CPC about putting it back up, or from White Peak / QT about adding a link to the 3-Link stuff.

Personally after having to deal with Andy (White Peak) about the Gon2far website I have taken a dislike to the man. Again, personally, I would not do any business with him.

[dollythelw]

Is he blind John?

[FridgeFreezer]

Dunno about blind, never met him in person and don't really want to now.

[dollythelw]

just wondered why he welded in braile..

[Daan]

Some one just needs to tell him to crank the amps up by 25% before I go anywhere near his parts. That doesn't solve the problem of his single shear shockmounts. Or do I miss something here.

Daan

[bill van snorkle]

Here are some appaling drawings of a 5 link system that could be used as a missing link system.

The blue "links" are fixed, the red one is (quickly) removable (ie on pip pins)

Even as a 5 link system it will allow very very good articulation due to the large seperation at the axle, as a missing link system it will travel massively, whilst still retaining very positive location in all plains.

A characteristic I find desirable about a 3 link, or even a standard radius arm arrangement, particularly for swb truck on portals is ''Antidive'' under brakes. This also becomes antisquat when reversing up hills or out of ditches etc. A five link with any appreciable degree of anti dive geometry will bind at the upper limits of articulation, so the arms are generally arranged to be almost parallel to give good articulation at the expense of Antidive.

Bill.

[Bush65]

I don't like 3 links that use a single lower link. The single upper link, even offset to clear the engine sump is much better IMHO.

The X-link idea of Glen Dobbins, is very good for a truck that is driven on road and off. And for all intents and purposes it articulates as good as most 3 links. I would use the X-link before a 3 link with single lower, or if there is a clearance problem for a single upper.

IMHO, the X-link is a better solution than the 5 link/missing link.

There is another way to improve articulation from radius arm suspension. Use a normal radius arm on one side, and a custom radius arm, with closely spaced bushes (at axle end) on the other side. Body roll is not as good on road, and articulation, though better than stock, is not as good as a 3 link. Handling under brakes is reasonable and better than 5 link. Does not have the same wear problems as Sam's holey bushes.

[bill van snorkle]

I don't like 3 links that use a single lower link. The single upper link, even offset to clear the engine sump is much better IMHO.

The X-link idea of Glen Dobbins, is very good for a truck that is driven on road and off. And for all intents and purposes it articulates as good as most 3 links. I would use the X-link before a 3 link with single lower, or if there is a clearance problem for a single upper.

IMHO, the X-link is a better solution than the 5 link/missing link.

There is another way to improve articulation from radius arm suspension. Use a normal radius arm on one side, and a custom radius arm, with closely spaced bushes (at axle end) on the other side. Body roll is not as good on road, and articulation, though better than stock, is not as good as a 3 link. Handling under brakes is reasonable and better than 5 link. Does not have the same wear problems as Sam's holey bushes.

I was waiting for you to provide some input John, as I know this is a subject that you have considerable knowledge on.

Bill.

[Astro_Al]

I see one comment above on the 4-link, and that's it.

Is this possibility under consideration? If not, why not?

Al.

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

just wondered why he welded in braile..

Perhaps he had them welded at QT

Ian

[landy_andy]

Hi,

I'd like to take this opportunity to comment on the above posts :

The welding on the 'gold' photo's was a one off kit for Jerry (as we had none in stock at the time) made by a contractor who we have since stopped dealing with due to the variable quality of welding as it did not meet our standards. Unfortunatly, due to time scales for Jerry's magazine article we didn't have time to remake the parts. These will however be replaced in the future prior to the vehicle being used.

With regards to Gon2Far and Nigel, he decided to retire without telling me until the very last minute. This left me out of pocket and dealing with alot of annoyed customers as they were confused by the products still being on the website for a number of weeks following our business split.

Dave Marsh stepped in and has taken the products on board. He is currently developing a new website that will be live soon and feature all the new & existing products.

Cheers,

Andy Daws