19MART82 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yes use a winch how do you tow with a winch ?. The question was TOW ROPE. Nothing to do with recovery. How would you all have recovered the blue Defender. No winch. Short straps, nearest town three days away ??? Pulling up hill on scree and at 90 deg to the blue Defender ? ok so were talking about towing nothing to do with recovery? and you want to know how we'd recover the blue 110? right... if i didnt decide to use the winch i would have gone to the back of my truck and made the decision whether to use one of the tow ropes or maybe the snatch strap or possibly one of the strops cos lets face it if i was in the bush 3 days from the nearest village i would BE PREPARED! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yes use a winch how do you tow with a winch ?.The question was TOW ROPE. Nothing to do with recovery. How would you all have recovered the blue Defender. No winch. Short straps, nearest town three days away ??? Pulling up hill on scree and at 90 deg to the blue Defender ? ...Without somebody stood directly behind the blue 110! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yes use a winch how do you tow with a winch ?. The question was TOW ROPE. Nothing to do with recovery. How would you all have recovered the blue Defender. No winch. Short straps, nearest town three days away ??? Pulling up hill on scree and at 90 deg to the blue Defender ? might have been about towropes BUT the video showed a poor tow rope/strap use & a winch out from the rear of the stuck vehicle would have been easier/safer & taken less time & created a lot less unneccessary noise/wheel spinning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 ok so were talking about towing nothing to do with recovery? and you want to know how we'd recover the blue 90? right... if i didnt decide to use the winch i would have gone to the back of my truck and made the decision whether to use one of the tow ropes or maybe the snatch strap or possibly one of the strops cos lets face it if i was in the bush 3 days from the nearest village i would BE PREPARED! What blue 90 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19MART82 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 What blue 90 ? my mistake post edited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 How would you all have recovered the blue Defender. No winch. Short straps, nearest town three days away ??? Pulling up hill on scree and at 90 deg to the blue Defender ? I'd never have gone three days from the nearest town without an entire kit of recovery gear for all likely conditions........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Amazing how a simple question on the length of a tow rope has turned into an off-road testosterone argument You can use an axle for recovery (brake lines on a rear axle will only be in danger if you wrap the axle - rather than hoop it). I suspect that the reason that the rear axle is rarely used as a recovery point is because in a stuck situation you can't get at the thing because it's under water/buried in mud, so the next thing is the rear crossmember or perhaps the jate rings. A standard rear crossmember isn't really designed to take the loading that's sometimes required in a recovery situation, but it's as near as dammit in most situations, so generally manages the job. Radius arms are mental strong things and the chassis and axle connections are just the same - I see no reason that the axle can't be used for recovery. Similarly - the rear recovery on the crossmember or even the jate rings are equally strong. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Amazing how a simple question on the length of a tow rope has turned into an off-road testosterone argument Amen ... as commented elsewhere I wouldn't want to be stuck in a lift with some of the protagonists!!! I have something that I call a tow rope and I use it for recovery, and frankly I don't give an eff what anybody thinks about what I call it - I'll call it Alvin if I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Amazing how a simple question on the length of a tow rope has turned into an off-road testosterone argument You can use an axle for recovery (brake lines on a rear axle will only be in danger if you wrap the axle - rather than hoop it). I suspect that the reason that the rear axle is rarely used as a recovery point is because in a stuck situation you can't get at the thing because it's under water/buried in mud, so the next thing is the rear crossmember or perhaps the jate rings. A standard rear crossmember isn't really designed to take the loading that's sometimes required in a recovery situation, but it's as near as dammit in most situations, so generally manages the job. Radius arms are mental strong things and the chassis and axle connections are just the same - I see no reason that the axle can't be used for recovery. Similarly - the rear recovery on the crossmember or even the jate rings are equally strong. Les Don’t agree. Recovery points are designed and fitted to the chassis for a reason. You could use the axles, you could use numerous points of the vehicle, doesn’t make it right, safe or logical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Right. Axle is safer than 3mm of chassis IMO. Why the problem with brake pipes ? Can't you look and check or are you in too much of a hurry.? WHERE are the fitted recovery points on a Defender chassis ? There isn't any. As for the length. Les. Ralph and others, remember my question before my first trip. Yep on LRO, LRE. 4X4 Forum and others, As well as asking people at shows, You know those who've been and done the job, Those who sell the stuff. Everybody came up with the same answer.... Look at that picture of mine.. THEY WERE ALL WRONG I needed a rope/ strap TWICE the length they all recomended. There's 11 metres of strap there...There was nowhere near enough. Now before you all start saying "Take this and that" not everybody is withing a few hundred miles of home.....Not everybody had the rear of a 130 Hi-Cap to store stuff. So IMO whatever we all say. Will it be right ? Certainly not in my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 But it’s not just about 3mm of chassis, it’s about a tested and professionally fitted (using correct nuts, bolts, spreader plates etc) recovery point on your chassis - I for one have never had a failure on my vehicles. I've have seen a few 'interesting' designs and I choose not to attach my vehicle / rope / winch anywhere near them, we've all watched in horror as vehicles 'snatch' each other with incorrect kit, poor technique and a complete disregard for safety. Never been in too much of a hurry, as I said in one of my earlier posts, I believe in common sense and experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 And what exactly is that axle attached to you think? That's right, that same 3mm chassis. That same 3mm chassis that's fully boxed and designed to be put under heavy stress, pulling large trailers and getting recovered off road. I'd rather pull with the towbar or bumper that's properly attached instead of those flimsy JATE rings too, although they work in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Absolutely, also not forgetting these ‘radius arms / mental strong things’ are ultimately attached to the 3mm chassis via metalastic or polyurethane bushes – all ‘R & D’ for the huge loads and stress’s of a recovery???? I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'd rather pull with the towbar or bumper that's properly attached the two things you don't use for recovery! they are not designed for the stresses of recovery, hence why recovery points are fitted..... and iirc defenders are fitted with recovery eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 To be fair, I wouldn't worry about the bushes.... they're designed for all the shock loadings of driving along! But, I still don't see any merit in recovering using an axle rather than a proper recovery point. Unless a vehicle doesn't have proper points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 the two things you don't use for recovery! they are not designed for the stresses of recovery, hence why recovery points are fitted..... Errr, I'm sure Elbekko isn't refering to a standard bumper, but one with suitable recovery points. And yes a towbar is perfectly adequate for a recovery, unless its bolted to a rust chassis in which case its no good for towing either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 the two things you don't use for recovery! they are not designed for the stresses of recovery, hence why recovery points are fitted..... I think I explained before that they are. I'm not saying the standard bumper. And the standard towbar (at least on an RR/Disco/everything but a Defender) is properly sturdy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 miss-understood about a after market bumper... and i personally would never use a towbar for recovery (especally with my crossmember) even if i would have to drive away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Well surely that defeats your previous point then, its the condition of the chassis, not the fact its a tow bar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 and iirc defenders are fitted with recovery eyes. Are they - you are not thinking about the lashing eyes front and back are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Seems to be a bit of discussion around whether or not the the tow bar/ball is suitable for recovery. This is an old video so I guess a few of you have seen this, it's also a really bad example of a snatch recovery. But it does show how much abuse the tow ball can take, pay particular attention to the state of the discovery tow ball at the end of the video. Skip first 4 minutes of the video It is quite surprising nobody was killed in the making of the video with the flying shackle Oh and it's just a video I found, nothing to do with me ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Well surely that defeats your previous point then, its the condition of the chassis, not the fact its a tow bar i was saying that i would used my tow bar ever!. the fact i have a 'lightweight' crossmember just doesn't help! :P Are they - you are not thinking about the lashing eyes front and back are you? yes i am.. my bad, been a while since we had a defender. but the video, compare the towball at 5:26 and 8:06, look how much the ball has bent, a few more tuggs, and the could of been a dead defender driver.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 CwazyWabbit What a super vid of how NOT to recover...... I was told NEVER join two ropes or straps with a shackle NEVER recover, I mean RECOVER using a tow ball..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I think the reason for not using a shackle is illustrated very well in the video Also if you see how bent the tow ball is after the 'recovery' it's a surprise that 1) The strop didn't slip off the tow ball, 2) The tow ball didn't detach and fly through the back window of the truck cab. Anyway, a good example of bad recovery! The kinetic strap didn't look very kinetic to me either despite the audio claiming it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 ... but the video, compare the towball at 5:26 and 8:06, look how much the ball has bent, a few more tuggs, and the could of been a dead defender driver.... Agreed, surprising when you think the size of the two bolts and the thickness of metal a tow ball is made of... you would have thought the mount would be starting to fail first ... then again maybe that is failing as well, just we don't get to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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