sean f Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 But we know they should have attached the strap to the axle don't we!!. I would like to have seen some one get a strap round the axle on that!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 But we know they should have attached the strap to the axle don't we!!. I would like to have seen some one get a strap round the axle on that!. If you really want an argument.....Yes at 73 years of age I could easily get a strap at that axle......Of course you youngsters want everything on a plate.....LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Of course you youngsters want everything on a plate Mike - you fogot to add "Soft Souherners" or "Northern Monkeys" depending on your viewpoint for the full abuse to youngsters Nige "Middle aged" Shandy drinking Southern Barsteward Git + Admin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) double post, please delete. Edited January 11, 2012 by Landy-Novice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 "Middle aged" (and the rest) I could easily get a strap at that axle free mud bath sir? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I had missed the fact that at the beginning of the video they tried winching it out first.... and snapped the winch line .... while standing right next to it and without a blanket..... I'm sure they did something right in the video ...... just not sure what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 OT SIR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (and the rest) free mud bath sir? LOL. Do you know one thing that should happen here. The stuck driver should provide the recovery equipment..... The stuck driver should be the one to get his/ her feet wet...... I do have a rope walk...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4444244 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I have seen that video of the chimp in the disco before.... if I ever see him at offroad I'm staying well away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 OT SIR? Apologies, it had drifted from tow rope lengths quite early on but you are right this should have been in a different thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The stuck driver should provide the recovery equipment..... The stuck driver should be the one to get his/ her feet wet...... I would use my own kit, then I know it's all good & as safe as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agent nomad Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 HI everyone As the original poster of the thread I would like to say thanks to all for the comments so far. There is a fair bit of thread drift but please continue as it all fits together for me,without asking more questions. Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballcock Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 As a novice to recovery in some of these enviroments these comments may be well off the mark so excuse my ignorance. I would have thought that the axle would be the correct place to attatch a recovery rope / strap as this is generally what is actually stuck in the gloop so rather than putting the excessive strain of recovery through the body and suspension components, which are probably not design for the exertion that must be put upon them having read other posts about suitable winches and the difference between pulling a rolling load to recovering a load stuck in mud. As for attatching a rope to the axle surely you would attatch this before you went off roading just as people attatch a rope prior to going any where they are possibly going to get stuck. This would ensure that the strap would not foul brake lines etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Attaching the strap to the axle before would mean it probably getting caught on things. and where would you put the ends? if they're onto the bumper/body then you risk restricting the articulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 This is straying more than a bit from the origional question. I don't see a problem with attaching the strap to the axle if like you say this is the bit that is stuck, the problem is it isn't easy in most conditions. As has been said if you attach it first then there is a very good chance of it getting caught up in something or getting damaged. It would have to be inboard of the suspension to avoid getting caught up in the tyres, on the rear axles there are brake lines along the axle which would have to be avoided and breather pipes on both axles which would require carefull placement of the straps to prevent damage. If the vehicle is nice and stable and the ground firm then you can get underneath and do this. In most case that isn't going to be the case. In the case on the video getting to the axle wouldn't be easy, jacking up the car would be difficult at best, just now deep was that mud and is the jack then steady, going under a vehicle held only on a jack is dangerous at best, with the jack on unstead ground its not to be recommended. Digging under the vehicle may be possible but would require a big hole and may just carry on going down, as you dig the ground under the tyres will move and the vehicle settle lower and so it goes on. The mud looked soft enough that a big hole would be required to prevent more from just flowing in, This would leave a big mess behind, something to be concidered as the land owner is not likely to be happy. Crawling under a vehicle which is unstable into a hole you have dug is going to be unpleasant and dangerous, not impossible but not something I would want to do if there are any other options. If the axle has been prefitted with recovery point life is easier put still difficult in most cases. There are circumstance where recovering on the axle might be recommended, I have seen a case where a vehicle was winched backwards with the axle caught against a ledge, in the end the axle was folded under the vehicle snapping the rear trailing arms. Recovering on the axle would have prevented that although so would the use of some common sense and building a ramp of some sort, waffle boards or what ever comes to hand. No form of recovery can ever be ruled out totally as every stuck situation is different its just that some are less likely to be the best and safest choice than others, every case has to be assessed and the experience of the people doing the recovery counts, attending courses will provide a lot of usefull knowledge, years of driving and recovering stuck cars provides experience. The problem as shown on the video is many people have neither or proper equipment and prepared vehicles, thats when vehicles are damaged unnecisarily and / or people are seriously injured or killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19MART82 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 totaly agree with the above ^^^^ here is a quote of a post i made back on page 1 which totaly proves my point seen as were now on page 5 - "theres no doubt this thread can go round and round in circles about the right or wrong way but its all about useing your head and useing what equipment you have/prefer safely" and another quote by jai landrover which i think sums it up- "You can Bull**** alot in life, Nobody can bull**** experience.." getting out there and doing it is the only real way to learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Whenever I see 'snatch' and 'Kinetic' in the same sentence I get frightened...but don't worry, Tommy's never used one but he knows the proceedure...so screws a shackle down hard, jumps in his motor and drives off at speed.....yeah he knows the proceedure then doesn't he! As for the towball, Tommy admits the whole things a bit rotten........ Seriously, if you don't know how to use a Kinetic, don't use one until you've learnt off someone who does, or been on a course. There's a guy in Pembroke at Woodpark 4x4 who does training on such things, and for expeditions, well worth a visit, I've been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 On the proviso of not having seen a kinetic used in real life (just videos) that one doesn't look to stretch much at all whereas the other videos I have seen of them the stretch is very noticable. I'd hazard a guess that despite the claims it is actually just a 'normal' strop ..... but my knowledge of kinetic recovery is enough to know that I don't know enough about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangev8 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 From the original post, it would suggest that the words ''tow rope'' would suggest off road recovery. Standard tow balls are for towing, standard bumpers are for bumping and axles are there for drive and suspension and no designer/manufacturer of an off road vehicle (unless specific i.e military) will allow for the sort of forces generated by a snatch recovery. The forces involved in a snatch recovery are huge. If you allow for the factors of 2.5t per truck slamming against each other via a connection (rope) it would be logical to assume 5t of force. So to get the actual forces as far as tension in the rope and also forces applied from the connection points, you have to include a dynamic equation which will include mass, acceleration and friction. Without these figures you cannot asses the forces involved but I can guarantee it will be a hell of a lot more than 5t. For example, a 1000kg WLL electric chain hoist, say a Loadstar, that travels at 4m per minute will accelerate to that speed in one quarter of a second producing about 25% of dynamic load = 1250kg for one quarter of a second....and no friction is allowed for here which is normally around 30% when a sheave with the correct D,d ratio of a minimum of 19>1 is used. Web slings, SWR and chain should NEVER be used for snatch due to non elasticity and steel shackles form a lethal missile. All good slings and SWR will have a safety factor of 7:1 and this will be advertised in the label/cert attached to them, but chain only has a 2:1 factor and chain will do exactly as it says on the tin. Slings and steel wire rope however work to a minimum breaking load (MBL) and will survive loads far greater than advertised..........this is basically an insurance policy for the manufacturer. I have had a reading of 27t on a 2t masterlink on a 150t line tester and although severely deformed, did not break. The best load bearing component of a truck will be the chassis rails as they are put into tension but they are only as strong as the attachment point to them so this will be the weakest point. The thread on an M16 bolt will start to strip at about 10t of gradually applied force. Well I may not be very good with diffs (once again, cheers Steve).........but I have been a lifting engineer for the last 30 years and hope this helps a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 ^^^ Nice CCKW, pity about the monkey driving it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 ^^^ Nice CCKW, pity about the monkey driving it Yes, lovely! There is one not far from me . What a spanner for attaching it to that tree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangev8 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Personally, I think that was was staged with a chainsaw.......but it did make me chuckle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 On the proviso of not having seen a kinetic used in real life (just videos) that one doesn't look to stretch much at all whereas the other videos I have seen of them the stretch is very noticable. I'd hazard a guess that despite the claims it is actually just a 'normal' strop ..... Agreed, forgot to add that bit, there's a lot more stretch than that in the KERR's I've used but my knowledge of kinetic recovery is enough to know that I don't know enough about it Didn't stop Tommy from trying!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangev8 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Tommy can you hear me? Dear dear Tommy.......he always turns up to save the day......or maybe he should just stick to pinball. If Tommy ever comes near me when I am stuck I will spring the claymores first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 It does remind me of an information ad....... Tommys Discovery just wanted to help people, it was a loving Land Rover but Tommy didn't care. Tommy would use his Discovery to abuse recovery equipment and other Land Rovers. Please help stop this abuse before it's too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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