Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I am on this Mile was a guy I had huge respect for And knew for years I and others started this event and grew it a major event until we found politics and stupidity within the hbro saw most of us leave Since then those In charge have done f all other than in fighting finger pointing and naval gazing and apologies for canx 2 years in a row So yes I am seriously Mildly miffed off AND looking to sort God help any Pratt that tries to tell me they - hbro / have it sorted for 2013 Enough muppets Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr whippy Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 im with you on that nige !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Maybe it's time for Nigel to run another Challenge - Mike Wolf2 - The Revenge! I think there is a market for a single event so long as costs can be contained (possibly through sponsorship?). On forums for 'other' 4x4's there have been a few posts asking for an even that non 'challenge trucks' can enter - much like the ones organised by Paul Wightman and even Jim Marsden in the olden days before it all became very serious. I suppose almost like an RTV trial. I for one liked those events - more at my kind of level - where you could stop mid punch and have a cup of tea! Since then there has been a race to make everything more EXTREME, but the more extreme you make it, the smaller your potential customer base! I'd like something you can enter in your daily driver with a single winch and be able to drive home without it looking like it's been in a multiple pile-up! The challenge should be in planning, navigating & driving, not how much damage your vehicle can sustain or how many near-death experiences you can cram in to a day! You should be limited mainly by skill not fearlessness! Some of the people entering an introductory event like that will decide they love it, build an extreme truck and enter the grown up events - which helps fuel the grown up events with new competitors. So I think it's important for the future of the sport - but it's almost completely absent these days! Food for thought - and such a thing would get X-Eng's backing! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will4x4 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Hi Si, i think a road legal no trailers allowed event would be good Mark and i did all the awdc howling wolf events like that and we had great fun keeping the truck in one piece. Only had one AA truck trip home after the head went 50miles in to the 190 mile trip back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I'd like something you can enter in your daily driver with a single winch and be able to drive home without it looking like it's been in a multiple pile-up! The challenge should be in planning, navigating & driving, not how much damage your vehicle can sustain or how many near-death experiences you can cram in to a day! You should be limited mainly by skill not fearlessness! Hear hear! I like Will's suggestion too - perhaps entrants should be required to arrive on the public highway under their own steam, or one of the punches is down the road tied to the railings by the police station Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Thats a belting idea Fridge, lets set a load of motors of down the public highway with tyres full of "bog" and possibly bent or damaged steering rods and track rod ends, lights covered in **** if they are not broken and windscreens that can hardly be seen, and stick it outside the local nick, the locals will really be supportive of us OFF roaders then I would imagine. Please don't organise any up Cheshire way pal, my licence won't stand the points, or perhaps we could do it on BMX bikes so its a level playing field, but with bells and lights of course, and cycling clips. Happy New Year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Oh god Why did I read this just before beeboos time Now I have an image of Boothy in Lycra on a Bike in my head, Christ my counselling bill will Know no end Argh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy90 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I think wills idea is good in the fact that that its set out to be a non damaging kinda day - but as somthing as simple as a broken light lens could get ya stopped/fined ect and also the possibility of unknown damaged parts would be an issue for me for sure, it's good to get ideas out there though :0) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Here here. Not everyone has the means to transport their cars, and you can carry the parts for potential show stoppers. I do know this, because I have done this all my life, where ever I went with my landrover. So Boothy, we have to agree to disagree. Putting a slightly different angle to this: Some of the best offroad events in the world do require exactly that: no trailers allowed and a roadlegal car. So this could become one of them. Count me in. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Yep - quite agree - street legal cars and no trialers allowed. The whole thing to be set out to be non damaging. No challenge wings, no bobtails and no tray backs. I'd also like to see tyres limited to something sensable like 33" max diameter (bearing in mind you cant legally buy anything big and agressive any more). However I would highlight that i would NOT like it to be run to ARC rules. They are ludicrous and outdated. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbowler Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 If you are going down the route of more road going/ legal vehicles, why not tie in with the British Army Motoring Association - they hold an off road nav event in Nov/ Dec every years ROADMASTER, normally on military training areas in the Hants area and I know HBRO help lay out the trials sections - just up the technical level and increase the map reading to get the variety. Chris Bowler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Yep know that event Prob best to have no hbro involvement to be honest There's a huge number now here and elsewhere who will help out skin need to move if up a cog and get a stake or 3 on the ground Wil report back Would be as suggested road legal taxes an insured poss only driven to site defo weighted towards more basic 4x4s winning more laters Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Thats a belting idea Fridge Easy fella, I was playing devil's avocado. Cars with damage shouldn't be driving about on the road anyway, if you wouldn't dare drive it past a cop shop why would you drive it anywhere else? Doesn't do our rep any good, and the inevitable accident wouldn't be good either. The point was more about the culture of turning up on a trailer, smashing the car about (either because it's a banger or because you can afford to) and dragging it home again, those of us who either can't afford to or don't want to can't really compete with the demolition derby on a challenge event, even "just for fun". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will4x4 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Don't get me wrong my truck has challenge front and rear wings / hydro winch arbs / simex etc but we have modded it in a way that it does not damage the look of the car after a challenge and is still road legal. I often find doing class 3 in the challenge scene allows you to compete at this level... I.e drive home after. I have won a handful of events like this as you can pick and choose punches. Prob is there is usually only 5 or 6 trucks in this class which is boring. Let me know if someone organises one ... I'm on surreyoffroaders.co.uk. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr whippy Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 id like to see this event aimed more at the kind of vehicle that was doing the rounds when mike was too. full bodied for starters, no tray back of any kind 35" tyre absolute maximum. vehicles must arrive under their own steam taxed & mot'd insured for the road is a good idea but may put some long distance competitors off. whatever is the outcome it can only be better that the sham it is right now. ps. nige im pretty local to you and happy to help where i can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj_4x4 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 We run a couple of "family punch hunts" a year at Mud Monsters, very much like the event you are talking about, the idea is to attract new people to the sport and add another dimension to playdays, Nige you have my number ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon_s Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Just curious, but did Mike ever really play a part in challenge events?? I only ever remember him racing comp safaris and rallying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Ruling out tray backs, vehicles on trailers etc, IMHO is as bad as what I was originally complaining about! I would hope that an event like this would not attract entries from super space framed buggy drivers as there is no cudos in winning an 'easy' event. Also, an expert driving a standard truck is still at an advantage over a beginner in a tube frame buggy. I don't think arriving on a trailer should be an impediment to entry. Realistically any event run these days has to be as inclusive as possible otherwise you won't get enough entries to make it happen. Mike Wolf is a case in point! Road legal with a valid MOT, but not necessarily Tax or Insurance is as far as I would go. Paul Wightman ran an event at Slindon, years ago, which was a single winch shared between two vehicles. It certainly made you work together! But, that also opens up the field to less challenge prepared vehicles! I'd rather be hauling around a Suzuki without a winch than a Land Rover! It will also serve to discourage anyone who has spent 15k on 3x Twin motor winches from entering! As I mentioned above, it has to be low cost. To achieve this, you need a full entry list and use the sponsorship to subsidise entries. I was disheartened to find that sponsoring Challenger through AWDC, the sponsorship fee went straight into the AWDC coffers and Challenger didn't see any of it! It certainly didn't contribute directly to the event as I'd hoped! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbowler Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Just curious, but did Mike ever really play a part in challenge events?? I only ever remember him racing comp safaris and rallying. Challenge events were not really around when Mike was about - fair comment through - lets have a Comp Safari to remember him instead!!! Chris Bowler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Ruling out tray backs, vehicles on trailers etc, IMHO is as bad as what I was originally complaining about! And it's a minefield of trying to rule things in or out, causes bad feeling and always upsets someone. From memory the handicap spreadsheet that Mr Wightman used for the first Slindon winch challenge worked quite well - teams scores were reduced by the number of (working) winches they had between them, and the more people got a punch, the less that punch was worth. Everything else was left open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I have ways of creating a level playing field so that a series on 7.50s SATS and One winch no lockers could win over a portal axle multi winch 44" bogger truck, have no fears on that Plans to move this up a notch this week, so wish me well Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I have ways of creating a level playing field so that a series on 7.50s SATS and One winch no lockers could win over a portal axle multi winch 44" bogger truck, have no fears on that what like have to change a wheel front to back half way through a section.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I would never done do such a thing at any of the events I've Ran or even thing of having... nor have DRIVERS (god the LOOKS on their faces, and also on the often more and the far fitter Winch Bitches who promptly all wet themselves group laughing ...) when driver told to run to the far end of the course to get a starting position number for their truck Nooo, nothing like that......... Or having a section where you got given a Hammer and Stake, winch bitch had to walk out and bang stake in ground where winch cable would JUST reach with 6 rolls left on the drum, points +/- for accuarcy winner was Julian and Ali Read - around 4 INCHES out, and worse was some 100+ FEET out !! Hysterical, driver was saying WTF is he going ????????? Nooo, nothing like that Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Sorted : http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=81121&p=695742 Its back on, and much of the above taken to heart and on board Now the fun starts ! Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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