I iz gonna b a CAD studunt now :O( ....need some help !

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Right,

As the TIG course comes to and end (and I then continue to learn) I have decided I need to crack

CAD via some training, possibly 3D ie solidworks, poss start with 2D maybe AutoCAD ?

Solidworks essentials - a 4 day course is a mouth watering costs, plus I would like to spread out the learning curve

Guild ford college do a course, using AutoCAD 2D and fairly reasonable, so wondered about software ?

Any got AutoCAD ?, maybe PM Me

I have been given a whirlwind tour care of Si R but I need to gain the basics more, and have looked at the tutorials, leant that lot, then when I went to

make something I need I didn't have the knowledge to get going Arrgh !

Ideas and PMs welcome

Nige

[LandyManLuke]

I wouldn't bother with 2D CAD at all. Once you've used 3D, you'll probably wonder what the point of 2D is, IMHO.

Solidworks is learn-able without any CAD experience, in fact it's probably better to learn it without having any 2D experience before hand!

I don't speak as an expert, but as someone who's self-taught Solidworks without any CAD experience beforehand. I know there are things I don't do properly because I haven't had the training, but there is lots of information out there to work out how to do things, using online tutuorials, forums etc.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

^^

Hmmm Interesting was wondering that

I have Idiots Guide to Solidworks (bit advanced maybe for me ) and defo will look on more on line stuff ...maybe not the 2D then ??

But thoughts still welcome

Nige

[elbekko]

I'd go for Solidworks, I've played with it a few times without any training and it's pretty easy to pick up - although the slightly more advanced stuff still has me stumped, like making threads and such

[vulcan bomber]

AutoCAD in general is utter carp! Solid works or my favourite is megacad and i use and abuse it alot.

[jad]

I used autocad to design my adaptors in 3D Its one of those things if you know how to get along with it/its "quirks", its easy!

Jad

[UdderlyOffroad]

AutoCAD in general is utter carp!

I wouldn't bother with 2D CAD at all. Once you've used 3D, you'll probably wonder what the point of 2D is, IMHO.

Solidworks is learn-able without any CAD experience, in fact it's probably better to learn it without having any 2D experience before hand!

I don't speak as an expert, but as someone who's self-taught Solidworks without any CAD experience beforehand. I know there are things I don't do properly because I haven't had the training, but there is lots of information out there to work out how to do things, using online tutuorials, forums etc.

See me afterwards, the pair of you

People misunderstand what AutoCAD is….

Computer Aided Drafting - AutoCAD is an electronic draft board, nothing more. If you don’t know how to draw, then you won’t have much use for AutoCAD.

3D Computer Aided Design Packages, such as Solidworks, Solidedge, Pro/E etc are great for developing an idea, creating an ‘object’, creating a BOM for it…but at some point you will need to get them to spit out a drawing. Hence why pros learn how to do ‘2D’ CAD first.

This isn’t as absolute as it used to be of course, these days even man+dog-in-a-shed fabrication outfits can accept a 3D-file in lieu of a ‘proper’ drawing, but if you haven’t toleranced it correctly….

Lastly, and I’m sure Nige wouldn’t do this, but don’t confuse an ‘introduction to CAD’ course with an ‘introduction to basic engineering principles’. People seem to go on the former without an awareness of the latter.

[LandyManLuke]

I agree that there is a difference between being able to draw on a board, and being able to use solidworks. I fit into the second group much more than the first.

I believe it's true to say though, that if you use Solidworks properly, you don't need to know quite so much about how to use a draft board. You do however still need to understand the basic Engineering principles behind tolerances, fits etc and designing and making something that will actually work. It is very easy to draw something that looks pretty, but won't actually work.

To draw an analogy, one could argue that someone should learn to write letters by hand before using a wordprocessor, however, what this means is people use a word processor in the same way they would write a letter by hand. They don't use the tools of a word processor to their full effect. Anyone who's found a word document laid out using 1000 hits of the space bar will know what I mean!

Whilst I am self taught, I am confident that I can draw parts in SW, produce a DXF for the laser cutters, and drawing for my use in the workshop, and have a lot of cut bits of steel turn up that will fit together and work as they should. I can do this much quicker in SW than I could using traditional 2D CAD (which is maybe more about me, than 2D CAD) with the added massive bonus that I have a 3D model to rotate, look around, simulate movement, inspect/measure, explode, cross section etc.

Luke

[Bingy]

See me afterwards, the pair of you

People misunderstand what AutoCAD is.

Computer Aided Drafting - AutoCAD is an electronic draft board, nothing more. If you dont know how to draw, then you wont have much use for AutoCAD.

3D Computer Aided Design Packages, such as Solidworks, Solidedge, Pro/E etc are great for developing an idea, creating an object, creating a BOM for itbut at some point you will need to get them to spit out a drawing. Hence why pros learn how to do 2D CAD first.

This isnt as absolute as it used to be of course, these days even man+dog-in-a-shed fabrication outfits can accept a 3D-file in lieu of a proper drawing, but if you havent toleranced it correctly.

Lastly, and Im sure Nige wouldnt do this, but dont confuse an introduction to CAD course with an introduction to basic engineering principles. People seem to go on the former without an awareness of the latter.

^^ Totally agree with that ^^

10 years ago i took a HNC CAD course. It was very intensive, squashing a 2 year course into just 1 year full time.

Despite only being at college 4 days a week, the lecturer gave us enough homework for me to be at the computer at home nearly 12-15 hours on the days off. I learnt with AutoCaD R14 and AutoCaD Architectural,which are as old as the hills now, but i still try to keep my hand in it by trying to get the latest software i can.

People think that cad is easy. It all depends on how far into it you want to go.

As suggested above, i would strongly advise having an introduction into cad, then learning 2d then 3d.

AutoCaD is the backbone of the program. Once you get the hang of that , then you might want to start looking at the bolt on bits like Mechanical, Electrical, Architectural etc

Just like you advising us with fitting megasquirt, you NEED to READ and UNDERSTAND THIS do this, THEN when your happy and confident READ this , finally WHEN you have a grasp of this and ONLY THEN try fitting it

Most of all Nige, Enjoy it. Just wish i could get me head around megasquirt like i could CAD

[Superpants]

I have done the 4 day introduction to solidworks course and found it very useful- if you understand the correct way to set up the model, it makes life so much easier when you come to make changes. This is something i didn't appreciate form the books, trying it on my own.

The resellers will often offer subsidised courses if they think you are going to buy the software- it may be worth looking into doing it that way!

[simonr]

Hence why pros learn how to do ‘2D’ CAD first.

Sorry, but that's just not true!

Being able to draw with a pen on paper is definitely an asset - and knowing how to construct a drawing by hand helps drawing in 3D CAD tremendously - but I cannot see any justification in the inference that if one learned 3D first, you cannot be a 'pro'.

Solidworks spits out good, ISO Standard 2D drawings very easily - but you are better off creating these from a 3D model which you can also use for machining / laser cutting / Rapid Prototyping as well than drawing in 2D then trying to create a 3D model from them - that's just making work for yourself!

AutoCAD 2D is good for some applications granted and 3D is not the solution for everybody - but for the things you are likely to want to make, spending the money on the Solidworks course is still better 'value' than a free AutoCAD one. AutoCAD Inventor isn't bad - though it's very different to SW and not too easy to move from one to the other. Both have strengths & weaknesses and people swear by each of them - but you rarely hear anybody pre retirement age swearing by AutoCad or 2D in general!

I draw everything as a 3D model then from that create 2D Drawings in Solidworks and add critical dimensions and tolerances where necessary. The big advantage of working this way is that if I make a change to the 3D model, all the 2D drawings I've created based on it also update, as do any models or assemblies which are derived from that original. That's exceptionally powerful and can save weeks of work! I'd like to see a 2D package manage that!

Using the Megasquirt analogy - 2D CAD is like going back to Carbs!

Si

[muttleyd]

Having spent the last 20 odd years on 3d Cad and drawing boards before that, can honestly say 3d is definitely the way to go. 2d is computer aided drawing, 3d is computer aided engineering. You then get the opportunity to generate machine tool code for complex shapes, stress analysis, kinematics. But of course you need an understanding of engineering. However generating models and using them to just visualise what you are making and ensuring you haven't got 2 holes too close together ( guess who has)

Go 3d you will never look back. But you will get frustrated but it just needs lots of practice.

Resellers training is always expensive so its worth shopping around or finding out if a college uses it, you might find a course or a module to try,

Gotta be easier than tig though.... Good luck

[yalan]

Has anyone explored the use of sketchup as an engineering tool? Judging by the countless videos on youtube there are countless add ons to simulate things like gravity and physics principals and the array of products in the online library is enormous...

Ive used autocad, proengineer, i-deas and touched on solidworks in the past... Just still undecided about sketchup...

[jad]

did anyone notice how c r a p is identified by the swear filter and replaced by ploppy plop plops in the topic but when you get the e-mail its unchanged? I dont consider it a swear word really but thought it was interesting.

3D autocad does me just fine so ill continue to use it

Jad

[simonr]

Sketchup (Stitchup) certainly serves a purpose, but mainly because it's free!

It's good as a visualisation tool, but much more difficult to use for generating engineering drawings or for CAM.

I would say, if you need to generate a pretty visualisation of an idea, Sketchup is ideal. If you need to make it, test it, model it's usage or mass produce it - you will save time, money and frustration by drawing it in one of the mainstream 3D CAD systems in the first place!

Si

[UdderlyOffroad]

Sorry, but that's just not true!

Being able to draw with a pen on paper is definitely an asset - and knowing how to construct a drawing by hand helps drawing in 3D CAD tremendously - but I cannot see any justification in the inference that if one learned 3D first, you cannot be a 'pro'.

Whoa, hold the phone there Si, I never actually said that. I stand by my assertion that most professional CAD users learn 2D first, basically as an extension of hand drawing, then go on to learn a 3D package. HnC and Degree courses, as far as I'm aware still do it this way.

Other than that, I completely agree with your post. 3D CAD is a completely different animal to to 2D, one where one is actually harnessing the power of a computer to aid the design/creative process.

Matter of fact, one thing I tell the Industrial Placement Students at my firm is to get as much 3D-cad driving experience as possible, both during their placement and afterwards back at uni. Even if they don't end up in a 'design engineer' role afterwards, the skills they learn are very useful.

In my previous post I was merely sticking up for AutoCAD, as some others it seemed to me were kicking it, because they didn't understand what it was for.

[LandyManLuke]

I stand by my assertion that most professional CAD users learn 2D first, basically as an extension of hand drawing, then go on to learn a 3D package. HnC and Degree courses, as far as I'm aware still do it this way.

In my previous post I was merely sticking up for AutoCAD, as some others it seemed to me were kicking it, because they didn't understand what it was for.

Learn, or learnt? I don't think young Engineers going through uni. now are going to spend much time with 2D? Our apprentices are straight in to SW at college.

I understand what 2D is for, I just personally don't see the value of using it (for what I do), when compared to 3D, which is so different and much better value in terms of effort in = results out.

The comparison isn't just between 2D and 3D CAD, the same is true for electrical schematics/design - 2D CAD vs something like ePlan, which is an Engineering tool, not a drawing tool.

[bishbosh]

Pah! 3D is so last year!

We do our CAD in 4 and even 5D these days!.

(sorry Nige!)

[Cynic-al]

You have to learn the place of each package before you pick one or slag one off.

Solidworks will probably be the easiest to learn and the most useful. They do a free package called draught sight which is basically autocad.

I did the sw certified about 6 years ago and can lend you all the books with tutorials if you want to learn it. They're a little out of date but the proncipals are the same. Might have two copies of some if you want some to keep.

[muddy]

I did engineering at gcse ( O levels nige ) and learnt pencil drawing and used solidworks along with being taught basic sw in another subject, when I then went to college we did more in-depth pencil drawing wich I enjoyed and found easyish first time engineers did not, however when it came to CAD at college I just could not understand autcad having used solidworks and ended up misplacing mine and another student memory sticks somehow ending up with some autocad files becoming crossed over, however I could use solidworks after the autocad just fine as could the other students.

Not sure if I've made a point or not there but I must agree with others that 2d is abit of a waste of time unless you know 100% what you need so can draw it out straight off rather than the benefits a 3d system brings in prototyping. I'd get solidworks and get playing.

Will.

[q-rover]

AutoCAD is a program mainly for 2D engineering/ plan/ design drawings made by the company AutoDesk.

If you are going to be using AutoCAD, why not learn Inventor from Autodesk, which is their 3D design

programme? And I would say a 4 day course is a waste of time, if you want to learn theses programmes

and get the most out of them, then you need access to the software, and use it regulary, as well as

going on a course that lasts about 4 weeks full time.

Nowadays I use PDMS and Microstation, which I have had to learn myself.

[simonr]

I, just for the record, went from

pencil

to pen

to IGS CAD (Which is now Bentley Microstation)

to AutoCAD V8

to AutoCAD V12

to RhinoCAD

to Solidworks

Other than drawing with a pen - which I still love, all the rest were really just stepping stones on the way to SolidWorks.

I found it had the shallowest learning curve compared to the others and SW needs a completely different mind-set (Parametric Versus Composite Solid Geometry) to draw in to the others, so it should have been the steepest curve - but found it required you to plan and structure a model in the most similar way to drawing with a pencil and for me anyway it just felt natural to use.

Before I bought SW, I looked at Pro Engineer, Inventor and a few others which seemed better value. However, to add the same functionality that ships with SW, they ended up costing more. So, I think it was an informed choice!

You know how you probably go around evangelising about Land Rover in a way that owners of say Sangyong's do not? The SW community is almost like that! Once you are a believer - everyone else drives a Sangyong!

Si

[Daan]

catia v5 all the way!

Daan

[simonr]

catia v5 all the way!

Agree - if you've just won the Lottery!

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Hmmmm

Look like its going to be Solidworks for me then, am going to start with all the solidworks tutorials and then see where to go after that ?

Ideas ?

Don't fancy 4 days at £1250+VAT also need to be able to remember everything I learn, so self tutorials seem a sensible starting point

Any ideas guids thoughts leep em coming, I really need to grasp the basics myself so I dont feel so embarassed asking others if / when I get stuck for SOME help

Nige