landy_andy Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Thought this would be of interest to some forum members.... US boarder agency currently has a big crackdown on all non-original LR's and they are being seized at port of entry & held due to VIN fraud, eg, if an ex-mil 1984 3 door 110 comes in with anything but a 2.5NAD and 3 doors and doesn't look like a squaddie bashed 110 then it'll be seized. Then the importer has no leg to stand on if the vehicle spec as per the VIN doesn't physically match what the vehicle is, it'll either be crushed or has to be returned to the shipping port at the importers expense. Legal action then may be taken against the importer for fraud..... there are stories all over the US boards of guys loosing their trucks in the past few weeks along with some allegations of UK companies being less than honest about what the truck started life as before it was shipped out.... BTW, Even if the VIN matches the truck, just having a new replacement galv'd chassis is deemed to be VIN tampering as it's non-original & it will be seized...... say good buy to all those quick sales to rich US collectors. Link to CBP news bulletin regards LR's - http://www.cbp.gov/x...al/04152013.xml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 So are they going around siezing trucks that have been imported already? It had to happen when some firms were blatantly importing "25 year old" pumas with ABS etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 It was only a matter of time really. It irks me when a lot of these well known companies are just swapping vin plates off of old vehicles onto another built to a much newer spec on a galv chassis OR, even worse, they just swap the vins to another vehicle. Whatever you think of it (they might do a very good job), it isn't legal, we wouldn't get away with it, so why should these companies exporting to the US? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 You say we wouldnt get away with it, but we've all seen the "hybrids" that pop up on ebay that are essentially a 90 with some pre-74 series plates nailed on the front, so clearly people do get away with it, for a while at least! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UdderlyOffroad Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 SO presumably...people will now be importing sheds to the US then converting them there once in-country? After all, the container with a 110 in it should have plenty of room in it for (blue) boxes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 so, if you cannot legally use it on the road here, you cannot export it. What is the big news about this exactly? Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 The big news is that up until about 6 months ago they were doing a roaring trade in vin swapping but now they are finally cracking down on it. Unfortunately it is the end consumer who gets shafted and not the UK company that makes all the profit and arguably is commiting the 'fraud'. On the bright side it does mean that the older vehicles will stop being destroyed for their vins ...... as of next year older 200TDI's will become exportable to the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 ...... as of next year older 200TDI's will become exportable to the US. Shame we haven't been able to have the same 25 year rolling scheme in place with road tax isn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy_andy Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 as of next year older 200TDI's will become exportable to the US. And you can imagine what a premium they'll fetch.... ker-ching ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Great, I am considering emigrating to the US and want to take my V8 Series 1 with me. So as the US is the home of customising I will have have to remove the engine first as the rest is OK? Marc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 And you can imagine what a premium they'll fetch.... ker-ching ! Assuming of course they haven't a galvanised chassis Seems strange they don't like the galv, or is it just the fact the vin is or isn't on it that makes it tampering? Shame we haven't been able to have the same 25 year rolling scheme in place with road tax isn't? Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I would guess that they would prefer people import a standard (ie. likely knackered at that age in the UK climate) 25-year-old Land Rover and then have it re-built state-side - mainly as it's a lot easier to control things (mods etc.) that way and additionally it's a little better for their economy and business like ECR who make a killing satisfying the yanks' need for Defenders. They cite "protecting the citizens of the US from dangerous vehicles" as the justification in the press release, but given that A. it's an incredibly small import market they're dealing with and B. they're saying they would rather people drive Land Rovers that have had 25 years in the British climate than effectively brand new ones, I find safety hard to believe as the reasoning behind it. There's no reference to any actual definition of what is allowed or not allowed in the official press release, so I wouldn't take hearsay off internet forums as gospel with regard to that. Until someone gets the position from NHTSA or the CBP in the states then we don't know what would get rejected and what wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 AFAIK, USA do not have a MOT vehicle test like we are subject too, just watch some of the US pimp my ride series to see how bad some of the everyday cars get, they would be pulled off the road here for the dangerous condition they are in. so I don't understand why the US DOT are being so stuffy with imported vehicles. I agree they are trying to prevent illegal & stolen vehicles entering the US but maybe they should start at home with a annual road worthiness check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UdderlyOffroad Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Shame we haven't been able to have the same 25 year rolling scheme in place with road tax isn't? Slightly O/T, but it will be 1974 from next year - not quite a restoration of the rolling 25-year exemption but it's a start. AFAIK, USA do not have a MOT vehicle test like we are subject too, just watch some of the US pimp my ride series to see how bad some of the everyday cars get, they would be pulled off the road here for the dangerous condition they are in.so I don't understand why the US DOT are being so stuffy with imported vehicles. Varies from State to State. But yes, 'protecting US citizens' seems more like playing to the gallery rather than actual facts given some of the sheds I've seen on the road in various States (and states!). But to be honest, unless you're BLR, Nene or Shamels-R-Us ltd, it won't affect the majority of users on here surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy_andy Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 so I don't understand why the US DOT are being so stuffy with imported vehicles. I agree they are trying to prevent illegal & stolen vehicles entering the US but maybe they should start at home with a annual road worthiness check. It's all about making a point..... a while ago the Japanese imports were targeted..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy_andy Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 Assuming of course they haven't a galvanised chassis Seems strange they don't like the galv, or is it just the fact the vin is or isn't on it that makes it tampering? It's the fact that the chassis doesn't have the 'from factory' VIN number stamped on it. If you stamp the correct VIN # onto a new galv chassis it seen as VIN tampering, if you galv the old chassis & the VIN # is still visable then you might get away with that but to date no-one has come forward to say that a rebuild with that has been let in by CBP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy_andy Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 I would guess that they would prefer people import a standard (ie. likely knackered at that age in the UK climate) 25-year-old Land Rover and then have it re-built state-side - mainly as it's a lot easier to control things (mods etc.) that way and additionally it's a little better for their economy and business like ECR who make a killing satisfying the yanks' need for Defenders. They cite "protecting the citizens of the US from dangerous vehicles" as the justification in the press release, but given that A. it's an incredibly small import market they're dealing with and B. they're saying they would rather people drive Land Rovers that have had 25 years in the British climate than effectively brand new ones, I find safety hard to believe as the reasoning behind it.There's no reference to any actual definition of what is allowed or not allowed in the official press release, so I wouldn't take hearsay off internet forums as gospel with regard to that. Until someone gets the position from NHTSA or the CBP in the states then we don't know what would get rejected and what wouldn't. It's real simple, there making a point that you don't mess with the US Gov't.... common sense doesn't come into it at all.... with regards to what would/would not get rejected here is a real contradiction, a ex-MOD '84 110 Tithanous rebuild was let in last week as it's VIN decode matched the vehicle, a 3 door 110 hard top with a 2.5NAD.... but the hard top is a FG Wolf unit of newer (pre 25yr old) vintage but it looks like a 25yr old squaddie bashed truck.... go figure ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy_andy Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 Great,I am considering emigrating to the US and want to take my V8 Series 1 with me. So as the US is the home of customising I will have have to remove the engine first as the rest is OK? Marc. If you decode the VIN what does it tell you regards engine etc, if it say's a 2.0L petrol & you have a RV8 in there, I'd suspect you'll have an issue. Vehicle must match VIN.... eg, a rebuilt ex-MOD 110 3 door tlit, can't be rebuilt as a 110 5 door station wagon as it now doesn't match the original VIN..... thus VIN tampering. And that's why I posted this thread..... best of luck ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 people have been bending the rules way too far and way too frequently. The US has always had strict rules around what cars can be sold there. They have made a concession to allow people to import classic vehicles, so cars that could never have been sold there during production can now be imported and used on a classic basis. The rules stipulate you can bring in a production vehicle, the rules also stipulate you cannot bring in a remanufactured vehicle - they count remanufactured as stripped down/rebuilt, new or galvanised chassis, re-engineered engine.transmission or modified body. Some of this has been overlooked for a while and many have taken the opportunity to send ringers or completely rebuilt, almost new vehicles over which have then changed hands for astronomical figures. I was looking at a 25 year old Defender with TDCi engine and puma body for $120,000 dollars recently. You may still, as you always could, send a correct vehicle in its original state, but popping a TDi engine in, puma bodyshell, trick suspension or anything that deviates the build from the code on the VIN tag will result in your vehicle beinhg refused entry - you can then either ship back to original port or they will dispose of it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Good, perhaps it will lessen the output of some the appalling creations that some of the companies over here have cobbled together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 If you decode the VIN what does it tell you regards engine etc, if it say's a 2.0L petrol & you have a RV8 in there, I'd suspect you'll have an issue. Vehicle must match VIN.... eg, a rebuilt ex-MOD 110 3 door tlit, can't be rebuilt as a 110 5 door station wagon as it now doesn't match the original VIN..... thus VIN tampering.And that's why I posted this thread..... best of luck ! Then I am completely FUBARED. Back in 1980 when a magazine bought the vehicle from a farmer (I believe), the VIN number could not be found (LR could not decide where to put it and chose different places occasionally). As the owner wanted a legal motor they called in the DLVA or whomever they were in 1980 for assessment and confirmation of the VIN. As they could not find the VIN the DLVA found "another" number and decided to use that one instead! Of course this is nothing like the real number. When I was doing maintenance on the chassis (welding holes) I found the real number (albeit barely legible) and contacted the previous owner about the VIN story the advise was don't go there it will open a can of worms as of course there is no paper trail to support this (it was not mentioned in the magazine article). If the vehicle is shipped to the US without V5 but a "purchase" letter and the correct VIN and no engine would this work? Or would I need another S1 engine to be added? Marc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy_andy Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 If the vehicle is shipped to the US without V5 but a "purchase" letter and the correct VIN and no engine would this work? Or would I need another S1 engine to be added?Marc. Hi Marc, I think that you really need to seek legal advise on this from a US lawyer that has (recent) experience in the importing of LR's or maybe one of the reputable companies that are not having issues with their vehicles.... as a first step join the US Defender forum http://www.defendersource.com/ there are a couple of threads on there regards this and the US guys can give you some good advise. From what you say about it's history, in my opinion you might be better off selling in the UK, buy a truck that's legit & bring that with you if you have the time frame. If not, sell it, take the proceeds & the savings from not shipping it over & by a truck already in the US or get one imported by a company that's got good recent track record. I know it's not what you want to hear but I'd hate to see a posting 18mths down the road that your truck had been seized & was heading for the crusher Best of luck ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Then I am completely FUBARED.Back in 1980 when a magazine bought the vehicle from a farmer (I believe), the VIN number could not be found (LR could not decide where to put it and chose different places occasionally). As the owner wanted a legal motor they called in the DLVA or whomever they were in 1980 for assessment and confirmation of the VIN. As they could not find the VIN the DLVA found "another" number and decided to use that one instead! Of course this is nothing like the real number. When I was doing maintenance on the chassis (welding holes) I found the real number (albeit barely legible) and contacted the previous owner about the VIN story the advise was don't go there it will open a can of worms as of course there is no paper trail to support this (it was not mentioned in the magazine article). If the vehicle is shipped to the US without V5 but a "purchase" letter and the correct VIN and no engine would this work? Or would I need another S1 engine to be added? Marc. What engine code is on the VIN number? If it's for a V8 you might actually be ok, if not just drop whatever engine in that's on the VIN code and fit a V8 when you get there. you absolutely need a V5 to get through customs. If I send ex MOD vehicles over, I have to get an MOT, pay for road tax and register it just so I can get the V5! They won't accept even a letter from the MOD confirming age/identity, so a purchase letter will get you nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy_andy Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 What engine code is on the VIN number? Marc, PM me your VIN number, I'll decode it for you.... lets see what you actually have..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Marc,PM me your VIN number, I'll decode it for you.... lets see what you actually have..... DVLA used a casting number as the replacement VIN and real one not completely legible!. Marc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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