Puma poor build quality

[studmuffin]

My brother in law has a puma 110 on lease which is just short of 2 years old, and has done 25K miles.

The front bumper is rusty as hell, as is the rear step.

The cubby box lock is broken and he cannot open it.

The rear door has dropped so he has to lift it up to shut.

The rear O/S electric window is Donald Ducked and yesterday the drivers door handle came adrift.

Fair do`s, they are all fairly minor problems and the dealer will sort them all out, but pretty shocking on a motor that's only been on the road for 100 weeks.

LR build quality could always be hit and miss but anybody else suffering???

Barry

[Happyoldgit]

Perhaps but they are still hand built vehicles and like cars built in the same way back in the day of you get a good one you are laughing but there are lemons about, the situation is not helped by poor PDI's by some dealers.

The powder coating on most of the exterior parts is of poor quality and has been since the phase out of the TD5 and introduction of the Puma, stuff like headlamp securing rings, mudflap brackets, side and rear steps, front bumpers can flake and rust at an alarming rate but most dealers will replace under warranty.

LR no longer wax the undersides and chassis as they reckon improved production techniques mean it is unnecessary but to my mind this is so much cost cutting BS so if you plan on keeping the vehicle some sort of rust protection is a must. Supplying upwards of 30k's worth of vehicle with little chassis corrosion protection is a joke.

[Ally V8]

The poor corrosion protection is disgraceful,along with poor quality components just show how little LR care about the products they sell,its just a shame there is so little competition,esp for proper 4wd utility vehicles....

[Retroanaconda]

Land Rover have little interest in a dying vehicle which they make no money out of and that they will be binning in a couple of years time anyway. So you can't expect them to actually put serious thought or investment into it.

[pat_pending]

Poor build quality on a Land Rover?

Next you'll be telling us they're unreliable.

Unbelievable.

[Anderzander]

Poor build quality on a Land Rover?

Next you'll be telling us they're unreliable.

Unbelievable.

:)

[Snagger]

Also check for corrosion of the windscreen frame to bulkhead clamps, mirror arms and lower rad grille. As for the chassis, we had our 27,000 mile, 3yr old road use only Puma treated by Rustmaster, and though it looked really good before I took it in, I was horrified once the steam cleaning of the chassis, suspension and axles was completed. The rear tub reinforcement for the folding seats needs close attention early on if you want to prevent anything more than surface rust, too.

Then look at the wing and head light trim alignment - all Defenders since 1997 look sad, with drooping wings and even droopier trims - I spent a day fixing those and the grille corrosion. Still, they're better than the 300Tdi and TD5 for resistance to corrosion...

[studmuffin]

Also check for corrosion of the windscreen frame to bulkhead clamps, mirror arms and lower rad grille. As for the chassis, we had our 27,000 mile, 3yr old road use only Puma treated by Rustmaster, and though it looked really good before I took it in, I was horrified once the steam cleaning of the chassis, suspension and axles was completed. The rear tub reinforcement for the folding seats needs close attention early on if you want to prevent anything more than surface rust, too.

Then look at the wing and head light trim alignment - all Defenders since 1997 look sad, with drooping wings and even droopier trims - I spent a day fixing those and the grille corrosion. Still, they're better than the 300Tdi and TD5 for resistance to corrosion...

Its such a shame. At the moment my bro in law is living with us and every day my 2000 TD 5 looks better!!! He was going to buy it off the lease company. Not now.

Barry

[Anderzander]

My 200 Td5 looks pretty solid too.

[Snagger]

Might just ahve been the early TD5s, then, but they always seemed to have terrible rot around the rear tub cappings and on the panels between the rear doors and wheel arches on 110 SWs, much like the 300Tdis. That doesn't seem to afflict Pumas.

[Inigo]

_{My 2012 Puma has a dead engine at less than 13,000 miles. Land Rover won't cover under warranty.}

_{While the vehicle is off the road and I argue the case, I bought a 1987 V8 110 that had been home maintained by the previous owner.}

_{Worlds apart.}

_{I will be keeping the V8.}

[smallfry]

Went down the toilet LONG before that. Not galvanizing cappings for one. The old series bodies and chassislasted a LOT better.

Cant find me keys now. Must be this rose tint !

[pat_pending]

I actually nearly bought a puma crew cab when they came out, it was only the attitue of the salesman at Marshals in Bedford that put me off.

My boss has a puma 90 and to be fair for all that extra money it's realy no better than mine.

There is no excuse for building carp.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Poor build quality on a Land Rover?

Next you'll be telling us they're unreliable.

Unbelievable.

ROTFPMSL

[simonr]

_{My 2012 Puma has a dead engine at less than 13,000 miles.}

Tell us more?

it was only the attitue of the salesman at Marshals in Bedford that put me off.

Similarly, the attitude of Harwoods recently put me off buying a Puma. If they can't be bothered selling it to you - they are unlikely to be bothered fixing or servicing it properly!

In a way, you could consider their poor attitude saved me from buying one!

Si

[Tanuki]

My 2001 90TD5 is coming due for replacement. Having driven a Puma-engined 90 I'm really not tempted. I don't want a rattly 4-cylinder transit-engine which has to make do without even as much as a DMF to smooth-out the all-too-evident roughness.

If only LR would offer a truck-cab Defender-90 with the 3-litre turbodiesel V6 [or even the supercharged petrol V8 from the Range-Rovers of yesteryear] and slushbox from the Discovery, coupled to a proper transfer-box-with-lockable-centre-diff and a transmission-brake instead of the stupid Disco electric 'parking-brake' - I'd be there waving my downpayment in a dealer's face and begging for a 3-year lease.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Typo

er 3 year release ?

[Inigo]

Tell us more?

Don't really want to go in to too much detail yet as it will probably end up in court. Basically they say that the engine is not covered by warranty as I exceeded the wading depth.

I say it is down to a faulty injector overfuelling. Not one person I have spoken too has come up with a possible, let alone plausible, theory as to how getting it wet/muddy can lead to an engine runaway.

Anyway, various bits of engine apart and out, getting independent experts to provide reports, etc.

Complete waste of time and makes me not want to buy a new vehicle from anyone ever again. Bottom of that non-existent list would be anything from Land Rover.

[UdderlyOffroad]

Thing is, the only way to truly fix the build Quality issues is to start again from scratch. Otherwise they're just chasing their tales constantly. Look at the water-ingress issues. Try as they might, LR just couldn't stop the leaks without major changes to the panel design. Easier solution was to just delete the carpets from the base spec!

[Anderzander]

And if the profit margins are as small as they say then they won't have been interested in any development for years.

[bill van snorkle]

What is this about lack of competition? Surely other Japanese or European manufacturers of working type 4wd's are represented in the UK.

The Defender market is such a relatively small one, and Defenders are not really British anymore, aside from build quality that is. I would have thought by now that a specialist UK firm such as JCB would have stepped up to the plate to offer something similar but of far better quality and more fit for purpose ! !

[Adam001]

Well they are still selling them with relatively minor changes here and there, so they can't be doing too badly.

It serves its purpose. It's never going to win any competitions against a monocoque in a audit battle, but that's not the point of it.

That said, it is surprising that they still rust so readily but I haven't seen a decent cross section of new ones to really comment

[bill van snorkle]

It is a disgrace that the company allows the descendants of the vehicle that saved their sorry arses from liquidation back in the late 40/50's to flounder like this.

But then again, it's not the same company, is it?

[deep]

Rock - Land Rover - hard place. The modern world being what it is, with high labour costs and modern, automated production techniques being far more efficient but largely unsuitable for Defender manufacture; coupled with the demands of needing ever-cleaner and more efficient diesel engines; and the perceived demands of such luxuries as air conditioning, central locking, electric window etc. etc., the poor old Defender must be a nightmare to make. Cost-cutting has been like a cancer for a very long time and the only real cure is a totally new design, which brings howls of outrage!

You'd think spending a little more by reintroducing proper galvanising etc. would be a no-brainer but I'd imagine the pressures are so huge that the cost of such apparent common sense wouldn't be trivial. I really feel sorry for the bods who make the decisions.

Meanwhile, my rust-free, 32 year old Stage One soldiers on determinedly, just like we all wish they would today. It strikes me it's cheaper to run a petrol V8 and put in another cheap motor every few years than it is to keep a new Land Rover maintained properly. Weird. The point is that, decades ago, Land Rovers made lots of sense, while today Defenders only make sense for a few. Sigh.

Personally, I wish they'd bite the bullet and re-ivent the Defender. They have the ability to make something amazing, as soon as they understand we want a proper Land Rover, not an off-road sports car!

Don

[Oakmaster]

See my comments under:

Puma Tdci wont start

same fault - 5 times!

Lovely vehicle - such a shame they didnt build it to an acceptable standard (or repair it properly under warranty with a decent relay socket)

I did have a whole raft of problems with my Td5 too - including a replacement Transfer box at 10,000 miles