isbjorn Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Hi. my 1984 OneTen:s handbrake doesn't work since a long time back and I recon I need it during winter. So I have adjusted the tensioner (on the drum) so that the drum/axel locks, and then released it a tad. Also tensioned the cable so that the handle stops mid way (ruffly). Still the brake doesn't grip. I can't move the drum by hand, but I can easily roll the car if there is a small incline or just by realeasing the clutch on 1st gear... The cable is on the last thread so It can't be tensioned more then it is now... I am guessing I need to get new brake pads (STC2797) or? Thanks for any tips... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 http://foundry4x4.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=65_1757&product_id=56 Throw the naf drum brake away and get one of these! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 http://foundry4x4.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=65_1757&product_id=56 Throw the naf drum brake away and get one of these! Yep do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isbjorn Posted December 10, 2013 Author Share Posted December 10, 2013 A bit expensive for my style. The truck is not doing any mud stuff, just hauling around a camper... so i would prefer to sort out the existing drum. But thanks for the advice.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Strip completely Brake cleaner the drum and internals relubricate as required fit new shoes and adjust. The drum set up can work very well but it doesn't take much for it to become rubbish. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I had an x brake and hated it,not designed for use when winching, and I couldn't stop mine rattling/chinking, drove me nuts, went back to drum and am glad I did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isbjorn Posted December 12, 2013 Author Share Posted December 12, 2013 Can anyone point me to the right parts? It a bit confusing. There is a lot of hand brake shoes around, how do i figure out which one I need. And is the britpart shoes out of the question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve King Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I had an x brake and hated it,not designed for use when winching, and I couldn't stop mine rattling/chinking, drove me nuts, went back to drum and am glad I did! Alas my experiences with an Xbrake are similar:- if it is adjusted up so that the truck won't move when stationary, then it causes judder when accelerating, eventually leading to the pads overheating. If you slacken it off (having replaced the brake pads) so that it does not judder then you have to park it in gear or risk the truck taking off down the hill. After numerous attempts at adjustment etc I gave up and went back to the drum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Alas my experiences with an Xbrake are similar:- if it is adjusted up so that the truck won't move when stationary, then it causes judder when accelerating, eventually leading to the pads overheating. If you slacken it off (having replaced the brake pads) so that it does not judder then you have to park it in gear or risk the truck taking off down the hill. After numerous attempts at adjustment etc I gave up and went back to the drum. You must be doing it wrong... There are thousands of happy people out there. I am one of them. I do get a bit of rattling from the pad, my sticking it in so it doesnt rattle didnt last that long. It stops the cars well on slopes and there is no judder/grabbing at all when moving. Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 A properly adjusted and maintained drum brake is more than up to the job it was designed for. You probably do not need any new parts at all. Remove the complete unit from the transfer box and strip to component parts. Clean, lubricate and reassemble. Should be good to go. Unless the brake gets left on it is highly unlikely that the pads are worn out. What is more likely is that there has been an oil leak in there and they are contaminated. In that case a new set may well be needed, but make sure the leak is fixed first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 This is what i was thinking ^^^^ Ralph has a bit in the tech archive on setting the drum up i think. Also, make sure the shoes are on the right way round. I think they need to go on in a specific oreientation from memory. There is also a section in the WSM for adjusting the setup properly - worth downloading for a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve King Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 You must be doing it wrong... There are thousands of happy people out there. I am one of them. I do get a bit of rattling from the pad, my sticking it in so it doesnt rattle didnt last that long. It stops the cars well on slopes and there is no judder/grabbing at all when moving. Jad I know there are thousands of happy people out there, but I can only speak from my experience. I spent ages (spread over several weekends in fact) adjusting the cable and trying the different mounting holes for the cable attachment. The last time, I got a trusted local garage to have a go and within two weeks it was juddering again - it was at this point I gave up and went back to the original drum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isbjorn Posted December 12, 2013 Author Share Posted December 12, 2013 Im staying with the drum. But I need to fix it. Maybe Ill do as recommended and give it a good wash with some brake cleaner. The problem is I guess I forgot about it a few times and drove away. So it might be quite worn. How easy is that to tell from just looking at the pads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 this is my drum brake removal & X-brake fit thread, the drum internal photo's might help http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=10846 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I know there are thousands of happy people out there, but I can only speak from my experience. I spent ages (spread over several weekends in fact) adjusting the cable and trying the different mounting holes for the cable attachment. The last time, I got a trusted local garage to have a go and within two weeks it was juddering again - it was at this point I gave up and went back to the original drum. I'd an X-brake too and had the juddering and overheating problem which melted bits of the pads and despite numerous attempts to fix it, including trying a second x-brake, I had to revert to the drum. However I'm going to defend the x-brake which I think is a really good piece of kit which I would have liked to keep. The 'problem' as far as I could establish was not the fault of the x-brake but excessive play in the output shaft of my 110. Seems it only needs to be able to float out a couple of mm and its beyond the tolerance of the x-brake's disc/pad set up. That was the case on mine, and the excessive play caused friction, the pads & disc then heated up, expanded and 'grabbed' and started to judder. I reckon something in the transfer box set up on some vehicles just doesn't work with the x-brake. My transfer and gearbox were both 'new' Ashcrofts boxes fitted just a matter of months before I tried the x-brake so worn out and rattly definitely didn't apply to them. And to add, Si at x-eng was way more than helpful, happy to work with me to try to resolve the problem, and was very dismayed that we could not make it work. Stuff can go wrong - its how the vendor deals with such issues that's important. So, if you fancy one, buy with confidence. Edit: just clean up your drum, grease the bits that need it, wrestle the expandy bits back in and bobs your uncle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 A properly adjusted and maintained drum brake is more than up to the job it was designed for. You probably do not need any new parts at all. Remove the complete unit from the transfer box and strip to component parts. Clean, lubricate and reassemble. Should be good to go. Unless the brake gets left on it is highly unlikely that the pads are worn out. What is more likely is that there has been an oil leak in there and they are contaminated. In that case a new set may well be needed, but make sure the leak is fixed first. Spot on ! I've never seen a hand brake fault on a L/R that wasn't down to neglect, incorrect assembley or adjustment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 On the X-brake front - mine rattled and I could never get a good adjustment as described above: adjust the cable so the bite was good and strong and the pads were too close - back them off and it'd fail the MOT. However - I stuck with it and fixed the pad rattle by following Si's silicone instructions to the letter. Did it inside with a vice. I also re-set the arm on the splined shaft, moving it by quite an amount, and that resolved the pull issue. The pads could sit right off the disk with no tension in the cable - but when I pulled the lever they pulled on much stronger. Now it's fantastic and I wish I'd done this years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Incidentally, I also think the drum is fine. Mine kept failing due to an oil leak I couldn't seem to cure. I bought the x-brake after it started to run away down a fell one time - and I thought 'never want that again'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diff Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 There is an oil leak 'drain' behind the hand brake back plate, they can get blocked with mud, but if clear, any oil leak from the transfer box output seal should be seen dribbling down the rear of the backplate without contaminating the brake shoes. If the expander unit has been taken apart, it is possible for it to be assembled incorrectly. This will result in not much movement of the shoes despite pulling the lever all the way. The expander unit rollers and wedges can wear out too. However replacement expander units are available. I agree that the standard defender drum hand brake is extremely effective and very much up to the task. Incidently, I will NEVER use Britpart brake shoes again. The linings were glued on poorly on one set, and on another I could not get the handbrake to adjust up properly, It was either have it binding and working when I pulled the lever, or not dragging and totally ineffective. Swapped in a recognised brand of brake shoes, and the handbrake adjusted up and worked perfectly. Regards, Diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve King Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 On the X-brake front - mine rattled and I could never get a good adjustment as described above: adjust the cable so the bite was good and strong and the pads were too close - back them off and it'd fail the MOT. However - I stuck with it and fixed the pad rattle by following Si's silicone instructions to the letter. Did it inside with a vice. I also re-set the arm on the splined shaft, moving it by quite an amount, and that resolved the pull issue. The pads could sit right off the disk with no tension in the cable - but when I pulled the lever they pulled on much stronger. Now it's fantastic and I wish I'd done this years ago. Aargh yes! I'd almost forgotten the joy of resetting the position of the arm on the splined shaft!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I'll bet you just have a worn oil seal behind the drive flange inside the handbrake drum. This means you get a nice layer of oil all over the brake shoes and drum,and even if the cable and shoes are set correctly, it will easily roll forward. Remove the drum, check for oil on the shoes,if it's there then drain someoil from the transfer box, remove the drive flange,replace the seal behind it, clean up the drum and shoes with solvent and replace all the parts you took off. Should take around 2 hours. Seal part number FRC7043. Only use a genuine one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isbjorn Posted December 15, 2013 Author Share Posted December 15, 2013 I'll bet you just have a worn oil seal behind the drive flange inside the handbrake drum. Not impossible... Actually quite probably. I do have small oil leakage under the drum anyway. So I am guessing this is the fault. Ill wait with the drum until I have a new seal ready and waiting. No need to be laying on back more the necessary. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Agreed with most on here, a good clean and proper maintenance will give you a good standard handbrake, but it does need good maintenance on a regular basis...the x-brake is a little more simplistic and 'fit and forget' Aargh yes! I'd almost forgotten the joy of resetting the position of the arm on the splined shaft!! You mean that really simple job of backing off a 13mm nut a few threads and indexing a spline? Don't get why people are having issues with the X-brake to the point they get rid of them, took me a good hour once fitted to get it nicely set up but you cant expect it to be perfect out of the box when manufacturers have such a wide tolerance on cable lengths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 There is an oil leak 'drain' behind the hand brake back plate, they can get blocked with mud, but if clear, any oil leak from the transfer box output seal should be seen dribbling down the rear of the backplate without contaminating the brake shoes. Never seemed to work on mine. The drain hole was clear but the oil always just seemed to migrate into the pads or the drum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 It's worth checking the flange too - if it's scored the oil will migrate past the seal regardless of it being new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.