The Rover V8. Why bother ?

[Bowie69]

So bin the LT230... and bin the weak axles while you are at it

Agree the RV8 has a fair bit going for it being nuts and bolts to fit to a LR, for similar financial outlay you could end up with an engine that will do 300K before thinking about a rebuild, bullet proof gearbox, transfer case, 2WD option, and far stronger axles.

I suppose it depends if you have the time, inclination and capability to do a Jap conversion.

[Nigelw]

So bin the LT230... and bin the weak axles while you are at it

Agree the RV8 has a fair bit going for it being nuts and bolts to fit to a LR, for similar financial outlay you could end up with an engine that will do 300K before thinking about a rebuild, bullet proof gearbox, transfer case, 2WD option, and far stronger axles.

I suppose it depends if you have the time, inclination and capability to do a Jap conversion.

If you end up going that far you may as well run the whole thing

[Bowie69]

A mix of Lexus engine, Toyota transfer and Nissan axles, the difference is it would still look like a LR/RR, it just wouldn't break down all the time, so in that respect it would be nothing at all like a LR/RR

[tacr2man]

Ive had sterling service out of the rover V8 starting from late seventies fitting a 3.5 in a 11a . A new stage 1 V8 sw (the first landrover i bought that didnt generate thoughts of trying to increase engine power ) . to a 3.9i in my 110, But it gets to the point that fuel costs become too big a factor, and fitting a tank takes up room , and is only good when you have lpg available , so no good for extended travel .

So then you have to look at diesel , inevitably with a turbo , so just doesnt have the grunt from go of a petrol V8 . But a compromise , so the RV8 came out and a M57 BMW tdi is now bolted to the front of the Lt85 in my110 csw .

[Lewis]

If you end up going that far you may as well run the whole thing

Agreed. Just buy a late 90's 100series Land Cruiser and put your choice of land rover shaped body on top. Graft the front end of an 80 series on if you want a beam axle up front, or just import a 105series

OT: Anyone know if the 80 or 105 series came with the 1UZ or 2UZ as standard? I've only seen 1HZ and 1FZ 105's, and only seen the 2UZ in 100 and 200's (now replaced with the 1UR)

Bowie - why are you so keen to use a 1UZ from a Lexus with a surf gearbox and patrol axles? Surely an easier combination is a 1UZ or 2UZ from a Land Cruiser (which already has a suitable gearbox and transfer box attached, along with the correct sump for a 4x4) and then use 80 or 105 series axles, or even rover axles? The land cruiser transfer box prop offset is correct for this

[Bowie69]

The 1UZFE from an LS400 is non-interference, the 2UZ is an iron block, and therefore very heavy, and an interference engine.

I don't think the 1UZ was fitted to the Cruiser... may be wrong in that

Reason for going with Surf transfer box is you can use the Patrol axles with a centre rear diff, which are stronger than the 80-series cruiser axles, especially in the CV joint area, come with factory rear locker even in UK spec. Also, using the surf box means you retain the Lexus autobox, which keeps all the electronics happy.

Lastly you can pick up an LS400 for <£500 and by the time you break stuff off it and scrap the shell your engine and gearbox hasn't cost you anything at all.

The Soarer is another good source, often better as no EGR and tend to be imports so lower mileage.

[robertspark]

Question: are the axles really that weak if you change the diff to an ATB (front + rear) and peg the diffs, and fit Ashcroft (or similar, in the words of the BBC "others are available") 1/2 shafts and CV's (AEU2522's)?

I've heard that the LT230 was the strongest thing that LR ever made (or over engineered before bean counters stepped in ... take your view).

So why ditch it?

[Nigelw]

think it would only be to keep the electronics of the auto box happy.

I thought about this topic quite a bit today but I am actually battling with my nostalgia on the subject.

My first Range Rover was 3.5 V8 when I was in my late teens and I will forever have an enormous fondness of that car and the fun I had in it, and pound for pound you can bet the Rover V8 is a great engine of it's time, but that is just it, times have changed and we now want more from our trucks in terms of get up and go but economy too, reliability is to me a separate issue as the higher the mods the less reliable they tend to be long term.

Buy a cheapy and rebuild it and spend €5/600 and you got an engine that will go well on and off road, won't wreck axles and CVs in a blip of the throttle but will happily climb around all day without issues, good cheap and readily fixed in the middle of a field.

Oh the joys of deep thought hey...

For me I want an engine I work on in the engine bay and still have skin on my knuckles, power enough but nothing too big and it has to be light, hence thinking 4 pot petrol, put it on gas and it will still be miles above a diesel in costs per kilometer.

[Bowie69]

Question: are the axles really that weak if you change the diff to an ATB (front + rear) and peg the diffs, and fit Ashcroft (or similar, in the words of the BBC "others are available") 1/2 shafts and CV's (AEU2522's)?

I've heard that the LT230 was the strongest thing that LR ever made (or over engineered before bean counters stepped in ... take your view).

So why ditch it?

You can spend £3k on rover axles and be strong, or £500 and get something that is probably just as strong, and has even further upgrade routes.

Nothing at all wrong with an LT230, but if your rear axle is centre diff, you need a centre output on the transfer box...

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Interesting Thread !

I love my V8s, and love all types INC rover V8s.

Hell my business revolves around Rover V8s !

They are cheap, you can get a cheap one for not much money now as a MOT failure Disco etc, sell the rest off and have a free engine

Easy to work on,and with a few gremlins [pretty well sorted reliability wise

Tunning - yes can be expensive, but you can do a lot for not much

Parts and ancillaries are cheap and eaqsy to source, you can run one on a shoestring

Yes big power = big bucks, but an LS1 is also unimpressive, and but the time you get a LS with power thats big bucks.

3 wires on a hotwire system and the Lucasrse Prince of Darkness system will (maybe) burst into life

Fitting / fettling and tweaking even Megasquirting a Rover V8 is not something that will frighten a DIY enthusiast away, fitting something else means

a great range / depth of skills / pocket are needed...

Even the simple thing of a Rover V8 / insurance is an easier step, than a I have a "Mitusbuki Doodlediddle VX47 4.8 V8 from a Snotgrubins Autoterkerlblaster Mk7 I would like to insure ...."

is also something to think of. and a vast range of knowledge help out there / here etc

And cheap - did I mention cheap ?

Not everyone has the pockets / time / skills / desire / abilities to fit modify etc ....it has its place the same as a TD5 engine even



Nige

[Bowie69]

.it has its place the same as a TD5 engine even

Nige

On the end of a very heavy chain?

No I like my RV8 very much, just I know I wouldn't do it again, times have moved on

[missingsid]

Some interesting comments.

I am somewhat supprised by the idea of building a LR with nothing LR in it, don't see the point but horses for courses.

Lexus V8 looks to be a great engine but :

It looks wider than a RV8? Therefore no good for me.

It needs different gearbox and axles, I need to keep DVLA points so no good for me.

Marc.

[pete3000]

As time and tech moves on I'd like to see the possibility of raiding the jaguar stables, for the 4.4 and the 4.2 supercharged lumps gearboxes etc. There is already a kit for the tdv6/8 so megasquirt the jag lumps?

It should keep the emissions lot happy as well

[camel1]

Not had any problems running the 1uzfe on a Hp22 and not had any problems with the Lt230 (low range and the diff removed for a single shaft). And axles are standard shafts all round but a Kam Lsd in the back and an Ashcroft Atb in the front.

Not broke anything in 6 seasons! Rolled 3 times yes but not broke!

My guess is 205x80 tyres and lots off wheel spin!

[robertspark]

Yep, I thought I'd wait for someone else to mention DLVA points..... or loosing them.

Is it me, but new engine, transmission, axles .... maybe a bit longer chassis (or minor moded chassis) and you're into the realms of no-known identity but it looks like a LR?

May as well get a go anywhere Humvee / Hummer H1 ( and for the price of some of the stuff on "pass the bucket thread".... probably cheaper too)... err just not quickly and you then have an excuse for double parking too.

this lexus looks a lot wider than the gap in my chassis rails (load of pictures on this link).... also looks like interesting pully re-routing work required too.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lexus-Toyota-soarer-40-v8-engine-spares-or-repair-jzz30-1uzfe-1uz-/221312528508

Like I said AJv8 from a disco III or latest RR, think someone is missing a trick there with making an adapter plate from the ZF 6 speed to the P38 / Disco II borg warner ..... any takers? + Megasquirt II & Megasquirt GPIO transmission controller

[reggie]

Even the simple thing of a Rover V8 / insurance is an easier step, than a I have a "Mitusbuki Doodlediddle VX47 4.8 V8 from a Snotgrubins Autoterkerlblaster Mk7 I would like to insure ...."

Nige

Lmao

[smallfry]

This is all good stuff, but it is also one of the reasons for my original question. I think i am safe in saying that everyone on here is, or claims to be, a Land Rover enthusiast/fanatic/afficionado ?

But if this IS the case, WHY, and God knows I am no different, do we change them to a completely different thing altogether ?

I mean, if they have so many shortcomings and need to be altered so radically in so many ways, surely this means we are NOT enthusiasts of the marque at all ?

Sorry, I am not quite articulate enough to explain what I am getting at......................

But anyway, as regards persevering with the RV8, yes, its CAN be cheap..........if you are lucky, but more often than not you will have to end up spending a powerful amount of money on either block problems, camshaft wear, or fuel and/or ignition system issues. Unless you have a 3.5 with flapper EFi.

For my part, sadly I cant afford to spend thousands on this stuff, but for a LOT less, you can buy and fit something far more reliable, durable, powerful (if thats what you want) and probably economical. I know that using the RV8 and various LR gearbox combos is a matter of nuts and bolts and working out the appropriate parts, but physically fitting an alien engine is not THAT difficult, and IMO a lot less expensive if you can do most of the work yourself. But is it the SENSIBLE thing to do ?

Except electronics, which I am too dim to understand. Or metric measurements. They dont mean a thing to me.

[bill van snorkle]

All the afore mentioned options are well and good in the UK and the Continent where you will probably not get more than 20 miles from the nearest auto electrical or fuel injection technical assistance, but for pure self sufficient survivability in the remote outback it is hard to go past a good old ever reliable, virtually indestructible, cast iron, carbureted 2.25 litre engine. All I want is a suitable clutch operated supercharger for those long greasy hills that can't be conquered with crawler gears and difflocks. Oh, and cheaper petrol and LP gas prices. I do have 2 Rovers with 3.5 v8's, but I wouldn't trust them in conditions where my life depended on their reliability like I have done with the 2.25.

[Henry Webster]

I think Fridge hit the nail on its head with his reply.

I evaluated moving to an AJV8 last year in the racer, and although the initial purchase cost was pretty reasonable, working through the whole conversion and thinking about how much of the drive train would need to be beefed up it just didn't make sense.

Of course a Lexus with a drive train swap would be cheaper, but that is still a lot of fabrication work.

I rebuilt my 3.9 RV8, for a realistic £1100,im sure it could be done a bit cheaper, including an uprated cam, but I've now done, I think 5 seasons on it without touching it mechanically. It produces a good 225bhp and is now even more driveable as I've latterly moved from

14cux to Omex 710 and distributorless. Revs to 6.5k, is good fun, great value, fantastic noise, relatively quick and forgiving on the drive train. There is some life in the old dog yet.

[Dave W]

The plus side of the RV8 is it's simplicity and it's cost. You can pick up second hand versions for not a lot of money and there is a plentiful supply of parts both original and third party to keep it running almost indefinitely.

The downside of the engine is simply it's age. It's a very old design that, rather than being scrapped and redesigned from scratch to take into account "modern" tooling and manufacturing techniques it has been "evolved" over time. As such it is a bit of a hybrid and a lot of it is over stressed and many of Land Rover's "improvements" over the years have revealed some of the design and manufacturing problems that are inherent in the engine design. The LSx engines, by comparison, were designed from scratch with all the later RV8 mods already in there from the start and with the whole engine designed around them rather than being added on as an afterthought.

One effect of it's age and antiquated design is that there is a "cut off" in terms of power versus money spent. If all you need/want is a sub 200 (ish)BHP engine than the RV8 is a very good option, it has huge flexibility and quick response, is relatively cheap to run (especially on LPG) and it will pretty much put up with any abuse you throw at it as long as you change the oil regularly and never let it overheat.

If you want an engine that's more powerful than 200BHP then there are far cheaper, more reliable ways to go and that is pretty much key to the whole discussion in my mind. If you want a high revving engine for comp safaris (especially given the inlet restrictors that many of the regs insist on nowadays) the Lexus is a good option. If you want a flexible, high powered engine and aren't trying to keep the displacement down then one of the LSx range is a good cheap option. (Remember by "cheap" I'm referring to the power versus money curve). Extra displacement always comes at an economical cost though, even at idle the thing is chomping through fuel faster than a smaller displacement engine.

I've run all sorts of engines in my Land Rovers, lots of RV8s, even the odd diesel and the absolutely horrible 2.25 series waste of space in both diesel and petrol forms. For general use the RV8 is the most flexible and has probably the best , what in IT terms, is known as, cost of ownership. Currently in my fleet I'm running an LS1/6 in my challenge motor, a 4.0 Thor RV8 in my daily drive/commuting car and a TD5 in my overland truck. Of the 3 the LS1/6 is the best engine but has a high cost of ownership and is impractical for daily use but perfect for a flexible competition motor that competes in challenges and trials at least once a month and also tows the caravan to competitions. I'm glad I fitted it but would have been happy to keep the RV8 if I hadn't needed the extra power for the Australian comp.

The RV8 in the daily drive is a good workhorse but is starting to show the normal RV8 problems, it had new heads a couple of years ago and is now exhibiting coolant loss issues that I'm having to deal with. I'm optimistic that they are external problems (heater matrix) but with any RV8 there is always that nagging doubt that it might be terminal or at least so expensive that it's pointless putting the money into it.

The TD5 (15p) is a good lump, reliable, solid, relatively economical and never has you watching the temp gauge when stuck in traffic. The downside comes on colder mornings though, it takes forever to get warm enough to get the heater working properly and if you get stuck in traffic it actually gets cooler ! At least with the RV8 and the LSx you're toasty warm

[Bowie69]

You don't need to use Nissan axles, in fact Rover items would be fine, and I am pretty sure you can get a Cruiser transfer box to fit on the back with an Inchworm adapter, which gives the proper off set rear axle, but adapters tend to be pricey... might be worth it, but pricey

I was more trying to describe my idealised version of a drivetrain.

[Lewis]

Thank you for an informative and thorough post Dave W, I enjoyed reading that

[robertspark]

Dave W -> what have you got being the LS1/6 if you don't mind me asking?

[tacr2man]

Its an interesting read on , "faults" of the RV8" , "having to watch the temp guage in traffic" ," having 2 Rovers with 3.5 v8 , wouldnt rely on them in the bush" .

I would go and recover vehicles in the bush with my 3.9i RV8 110 , for over a decade , never a problem, and found it was able to handle sandhills in 45C+ , when , other engined 4x4 were having to turn off the aircon to stop them overheating , and yet its heat providing ability was a real plus back in the UK in winter . Having replaced it with a diesel, I am now most likely going to fit a webasto FBH to get me comfy !

It is probably not the "Carlsberg" engine , but it is such a good compromise of what majority are looking to tick various boxes . JMHO

[FridgeFreezer]

Its an interesting read on , "faults" of the RV8" , "having to watch the temp guage in traffic" ," having 2 Rovers with 3.5 v8 , wouldnt rely on them in the bush"

Yeah, I thought that too. If you're having to watch the temp gauge in any situation your cooling is inadequate or there's a fault.