TSD Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Well then it's an O3 or O4 'Heavy' trailer, and requires an IVA test before use on the road, and then possibly annual testing. The IVA manual for trailers doesn't stipulate requrements for those specifically, only that 'evidence of compliance to the required standard' is required, presumably refer to C&U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I assume the importer does it then? Or people just turn a blind eye until there's a problem. I know there is an EU manufacturer of 5th wheel vans which are smaller and claim to be the only propper one for UK roads. There are also some 5th wheel swan neck trailers that collect cars from the estate near me which are towed by either pickups or converted vans which look serious. One even delivers helicopter accessories from a local factory. Either way we've perhaps drifted off topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 On the subject of 5th wheels... I'm sure I saw a 110 converted with a 5th wheel going down the A90 or could have been somewhere in Englandshire, can't remember now, but there's defo a 110 with that conversion knocking around. http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=42911 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverdrive Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Not strictly relevent, but I drove past a J**p towing a tri axle trailer with six one tonne bags of gravel on it yesterday. Must have been ok as the trailer was only half full! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Looking through the linked thread Mav I noted the air service brakes on the back of that 90 5th wheeler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I have long been interested in fifth wheels for defenders, try 'vipex.co.uk' for some seriously expensive food for thought. (no joy with the link function today!) Try a search for 'land rover fifth wheel', 'articulated land rover', and 'mini artic' (exclude arctic), there have been lots over the years, generally the trailer stays 3.5t and the tow vehicle bears the extra payload on the fifth wheel or goose neck; although some Iveco combos I have seen up to 12t! The Fifth Wheel Company in Wales do mainly caravans but have done a few trailers. I think the main reason it is not popular in the UK is precisely because it is a bit of a grey area. The companies that do it serve a niche market and charge royally for it, but one day I'll do my own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Meant to add in response to an earlier post that the Ifor tri-axles wouldn't be 4.5t because the brakes are smaller, twins have 250mm brakes, tri's have 200mm brakes, you would have to swop axles (which would fit) to get 4.5t and for what its worth have a large tyre budget!, they hate being pulled sideways under max payload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I have long been interested in fifth wheels for defenders, try 'vipex.co.uk' for some seriously expensive food for thought. (no joy with the link function today!) Try a search for 'land rover fifth wheel', 'articulated land rover', and 'mini artic' (exclude arctic), there have been lots over the years, generally the trailer stays 3.5t and the tow vehicle bears the extra payload on the fifth wheel or goose neck; although some Iveco combos I have seen up to 12t! The Fifth Wheel Company in Wales do mainly caravans but have done a few trailers. I think the main reason it is not popular in the UK is precisely because it is a bit of a grey area. The companies that do it serve a niche market and charge royally for it, but one day I'll do my own here you go a live link to the 4x4 section http://www.vipex.co.uk/trailer-types/off-road-artics/ ligtweight mini artics http://www.vipex.co.uk/trailer-types/mini-artic/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 When I looked into the 5th wheel caravan they wanted £900 to adapt the pickup (although I can't remember if that included brakes) and £600 to add air bag assistors to the springs so you could get it to ride level under load. Should be more stable than a conventional trailer too and hopefully harder to steal. The downsides I could see we're having to take the hardtop off the pickup and fitting the 5th wheel when you wanted to use the caravan then not having a boot whilst your away. Plus you can't exactly unhitch it and push it (or use the motormover) to get it on pitch. Would be a nice thing to have though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I pass the Racetech fifth-wheel equipped 90s quite often, they are used for transporting the media equipment for the horse racing events. The same ones as in the link posted by Maverik....they have puma models now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Does this mean your payload is 70 kg? You could bust that just with a passenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 A triaxle has advantages over a dual axle in the area of stability and safety , that outweigh the extra tyre wear negative. I built and used a triaxle several decades ago , and you could lose a tyre without any noticeable effect to the stability or handling. This is not the case with a dual axle , as the loaded stability envelope is much wider with the 3 axles . I also found that extra tyre wear was not that much more , but i was doing mostly long motorway type runs , it would be likely that if doing short runs with lots of restricted maneuvering it might be more of a factor . Unhitched maneuvering is pretty much impossible. If you go over 3500kg trailer it would come under hgv type regulations with active brakes and since 1988 quite possibly the requirement for abs , but not 100% certain on that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 When I looked at getting a 5th wheel caravan I was told the electric brakes are not allowed in the UK so they get converted to pneumatic on import. Also some are over 3.5tonne and they work on the basis of towing some carrying some which I guess is ok so long as gtw and axle weight is ok. I think for what you want to do you would need to rate it as hgv. U.S. imports are usually down plated so people can use them as cars. I would contact the dsa for official guidance. C+e is ok, I did mine 4x4h lessons then test on Friday. Don't forget if you want to do commercial theres cpc too. If you load the trailer right you can actually tow a trailer of 3.5T+ just by adjusting where the weight sits. a mate was pulled over to a public weighbridge with a load of bricks on the trailer, the trailer itself if unhitched would weigh more than 3500kg, but as he used his nose-weight allowance to his advantage, a portion of this was transferred onto the rear axle of his landy. he weighed in at 3497 or something over the trailer wheels IIRC. the VOSA man told him that he knew there was more than 3500kg on the trailer but he couldnt be done because of the way this weight was transferred to the towing vehicle. (he had set off from a weighbridge equipped place and used this to balance the load out) he was just told to be careful with the load and sent on his way! this is the same reason that lorries can tow a lot more, because a large portion of the load is put down through the rear axles of the tractor unit, due to the position of the 5th wheel this has a better effect than that of a car which has a tow hitch acting as a cantilever out behind the rear axle, (affecting the steering if not careful) A triaxle has advantages over a dual axle in the area of stability and safety , that outweigh the extra tyre wear negative. I built and used a triaxle several decades ago , and you could lose a tyre without any noticeable effect to the stability or handling. This is not the case with a dual axle , as the loaded stability envelope is much wider with the 3 axles . I also found that extra tyre wear was not that much more , but i was doing mostly long motorway type runs , it would be likely that if doing short runs with lots of restricted maneuvering it might be more of a factor . Unhitched maneuvering is pretty much impossible. If you go over 3500kg trailer it would come under hgv type regulations with active brakes and since 1988 quite possibly the requirement for abs , but not 100% certain on that . Like So? I had a blowout setting off from the farm to ludlow, i was not leaving the trailer parked up at the side of the road to go missing while i went to get the tyre repaired. (the spare had a nail through it damn builders merchants) so i just pulled the wheel to avoid firther rim damage and continued on my way to the local tyre place albeit more carefully than usual (which is of course very careful when towing) i wasnt heavily loaded, probably only had around a ton of hay on board, and wouldnt like to drive it like that fully laden as it must add a twisting force to the chassis which could affect fatigue etc. but you hear quite often of how a blow out has caused a trailer jackknife occurance, and if you actually look into it, mostly these are twin axles. (you could argue that the shared load of all 3 tyres puts less stress on them overall therefore less chance of any blowouts, and you could argue, that if a third tyre does blow out. the trailer is still going to be pretty stable, especially on low profile tyres. just my 2p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I thought part of the rating on a car tow bar was the allowable nose weight, usually 100kg ish? And some trailers account for it in their playing ie some will say 1300kg per axle and 2700kg total Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 im referring to the total weight when weighing the trailer axles on a weighbridge. so in esscence you are correct, i just find it funny that you can get away with/get done for overweight just by moving that last few kg from the middle to the front of the trailer some trailers do account for this and the nose weight does vary depending on vehicle but 100kg is (IIRC) one of the higher ratings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I always understood the nose weight was meant to be 50 to 100Kgs...and admit to being very carp at actually paying any attention to what is actually is, going just by feel, knowing what trying to lift two bags of cement is like.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 My caravan has a scale on the jockey wheel, no idea is it's accurate but when I bother to look it's often at its maximum of 125kg :s I find the pickup prefers weight on its back though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 The trailer tow hitch (and the vehicle tow bar for that matter) have maximum design vertical loads, for a big hitch (eg 3.5t) it is usually 150kg max. more than that can affect the sliding capability and obviously then the braking. Individual trailer models (whether factory built with EU type approval, or one off designs) will have a maximum allowable figure (usually in the range 50 to 100 kg) based on the drawbar design , hitch capability and axle configuration. One of the attractions of 5th wheel design is that the drawbar or gooseneck transfers much more significant proportion of the load to an 'ideal' point on the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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