5.0 v8 project

[muddy4x4xfar]

Hi all. I'm thinking about putting a 5.0 hybrid v8 into my disco.

i want something super quick and something different from what others have done.

the land rover discovery i have is a 1993 edition first vehicle i ever bought so sentimental and i want to do something special. so I'm thinking bowler suspension, with a 5.0 v8 engine.

i understand or i am told the 5.0 v8s used in the bowlers. are half TVR the block end and half land rover cylinder heads top end.

is it true that TVR used rover v8 engines. if so which engine should i be looking for to rebuild and modify? i understand any rover head will fit to these blocks also , is this true?

i want to be able to use a manual box also which i will be ask ashcroft transmissions about as i want to be able to drop everything into the vehicle with out too much modifying to the chassis.

any help and advice would be great.

thanks all

chris

[need4speed]

Whatever route you take, it's going to be MONEY.

I always thought the bowlers used the AJV8 supercharged 4.2 same as the RRS. And latterly the AJV8 5.0? I may well be wrong of course..

If you want to keep it JLR then that's what you are looking at. As far as I know the only company to use the supercharged AJV8 is JE Engineering in there "Zulu" conversion. It will be a fortune. You can either have an auto or a manual in that conversion with the manual being a Tremec AFAIK..

If your not bothered about keeping it JLR then there are more options available like an LS engine if you want more than 5.0...

Look forward to seeing what you decide..

[elbekko]

Why stop at 5.0?

I wouldn't bother with trying to source a TVR engine, I don't think they're actually that different from LR engines.

[need4speed]

Or for roughly the same money but with gearbox etc all included. Oh and way more power...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-RANGE-ROVER-SPORT-4-2-SUPERCHARGED-V8-ENGINE-GEARBOX-L320-8-253-MILES-/291475250467?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&fits=Model%3ARange+Rover+Sport&hash=item43dd475d23

[elbekko]

+ the electronics to make it all work.

But yeah, if it were cheap to do, that would obviously be a much better option.

[dangerous doug]

I bought a 4.8 vortec (iron block LS engine) with a TH400 manual automatic transmission and an LT230 adapter with all the loom ect for under 2k. That engine starts at 300bhp and 300lbs/ft torque then you can fit cams ect to it to get a bit more. I dont think you can get that power for that price using any landrover derived units. The TH400 is also a pretty strong box......just my 2p

[Cynic-al]

A friend had an old rover 3.5 built to 5 litre by v8 developments for a 7 style kit car. Dynod at about 330 bhp. It was a combination of rover tvr and a lot of custom parts. It costs as much to get the rover v8 to rev without blowing up as it does to get it to be a 5 litre.

Cross drilled block, bigger valves, stronger springs, sharper cam etc. They recon he could get a bit more with a sharper cam and altering the exhaust but it would get harder to drive in traffic.

Goes well in a light car though

[RedLineMike]

I bought a 4.8 vortec (iron block LS engine) with a TH400 manual automatic transmission and an LT230 adapter with all the loom ect for under 2k. That engine starts at 300bhp and 300lbs/ft torque then you can fit cams ect to it to get a bit more. I dont think you can get that power for that price using any landrover derived units. The TH400 is also a pretty strong box......just my 2p

wish you would sell it to me

[garrycol]

Or even more zoom zoom - and it has been done in a D2 so will also go into a D1

http://www.haultech.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=700

[FridgeFreezer]

Old bowlers used TVR-ish lumps, but then TVR were renowned for nailing Rover V8's (and entire cars) together with whatever bits they could find that week - engine bits could be Land Rover standard or high performance aftermarket ones depending what was in stock for how much.

If you want actual insanity just buy a yank lump, you'll spend more getting 300bhp out of a Rover than 600+ out of an LS.

[Carloz]

A standard LR 4.6 is already on or over the capabilities from the standard LR R380 gearbox (Max torque 380Nm). So definately another or uprated gearbox is needed.

There are a couple off companies which built 4.8 , 5.0 and 5.2L Rover V8's... But without a manual gearbox whith a direct fit you are entering directly the custom fabrication department. Maybe the beefed up R380 from Ashcroft can fill this gap to some extend... The torque capability hoovers somewhere between 400 and 440Nm so far I understand. It is equiped with two bigger bearings.

LT230 is the only part which reliably can take the extra load.

[FridgeFreezer]

Seriously, you can buy a complete engine & transmission with the whole wiring harness, ECU, everything from the states for less than the price of a pair of trick heads for a Rover V8:

30 seconds on eBay, 1st result from hundreds:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201392440215

That's a 6.0 V8 with transmission, making a smooth, lazy, and reliable 345hp / 380nm out of the box with a 6 month warranty for $3500. Call it £3000 landed in the UK it's still cheap. Throw a few hundred bucks at a remapped ECU and you're likely making well over 400 everythings everywhere without breaking a sweat compared to a Rover just about managing 300-and-something hanging on by its fingernails.

A few more dollar gets you something very shiny indeed:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121704949739

Up the budget a bit and you can get a shiny crate engine making 600 everythings all over the dial.

[need4speed]

... So definately another or uprated gearbox is needed..

Nonsense. An R380 easily handles a standard 4.6... Unless it's driven by a club-footed pensioner...

[robertspark]

....600+ out of an LS.

How...

Sorry BS alarm is going off here...

I know that 600+ gets quoted a whole lot with cam changes but I think this is a lot of pub talk, scores on the doors moment but I think you'll struggle on naturally aspirated LS

..bear with me for a moment... Suggest a search for LS7 development is in order at this moment, as its an interesting hour read and how they achieved 505 SAE independantly certified horse power...

All naturally aspirated on STD pump petrol

Now charging or turboing it that is when the 650's and 700's are achievable, but naturally aspirated sorry that's pub talk... Anyone stating that needs it backing up with two sets of paper... A dyno printout and a calibration certificate for the dyno...

Given the question was for a 5.0 I won't go into LS, but suggest that you buy a cheap 4.6, consider it a disposable engine, megasquirted it, edis it, rhoads lifters, sports 4.6 exhaust, maybe play around with lt230 ratios, and maybe a camshaft with a different grind and be happy with your couple of thousand spend, and when the 4.6 goes pop... Transfer it all over to the new replacement one over a weekend.

North of 4.6, on a very old engine design which is not really designed for it will not give you longevity and be a money sinker... Unless you intent to retire with it that is...

Serious torque will kill diffs, cv's and gearboxes... And you can spend some cash on ATB or lockable diffs, pegged diffs, HD cv's, half shafts etc if you break one.

LS is around 10k, by the time you're done, budget on 15 and you may have change depend on what else you want to do of how well you want to finish it... Is it just a bodge, season runner or a keeper you don't plan on doing again...

Sandbags, tin hat and coat..

[dangerous doug]

you can have a fully working LS set up for under 10k, fridge literally just broke it down. I think I'm right in saying he had quite a lot to do with the mouse build which iirc was LS1 so knows first hand the financials and logistics of the build process. Again I also have an LS derived engine, "only" 4.8 and has an iron block but still decent bhp figures for little more than a 3.9 engine and Megasquirt kit. Even if you imported a Dana60 front with the engine and box and fitted a Salisbury rear you would still be better off.....

And I dont think 600bhp+ is out of the question with them as they are capable of being tuned to over 100hp/ltr however that does depend on how much work you want to do and how much you want to spend

No replacement for displacement as they say.......

[FridgeFreezer]

I'm not saying 600bhp LS lumps are common-as-muck and dirt cheap, but 600bhp out of an LS is a lot more realistic/affordable prospect than half that from a Rover. And if you're gunning for that sort of thing, I don't see it as a major drawback if you have to use forced induction.

As DD points out, I was part of the Mouse build so I've 1st hand experience of an LS lump in an off-roader and I've also spent enough time in Nige's workshop to have seen his various very special Rover lumps in various states of disassembly and just how much tweaking goes into building those.

On a budget, yes, a cheap Rover 4.6 is the way to go, you can keep the drivetrain which saves a lot of hassle and with modest mods (megasquirt being essential IMHO) you've got a pretty solid driveable lump that will propel a 2ton vehicle about the place in a spirited fashion. If you want more than that, you wander very much into diminishing returns with the rover, and you're pushing the limits of its design whereas an LS putting out 400hp is not even trying very hard, still passing California emissions standards and will run for hundreds of thousands of miles like that. Not to mention the LS are being churned out in their millions with massive aftermarket support.

if you can accept a less glamorous version - cast iron block or V6 rather than V8 there's real bargains to be had, but even the full shiny new crate engines are pretty good value.

[need4speed]

Strange how there has been a lot of discussion in this thread from everyone except the guy that started it...

Is this a vapour build I'm sensing??

[elbekko]

The initial purchase cost of an LS might be low, but experience has shown that finding parts is ridiculously difficult. Unless you want to sell a kidney to fund an idler pulley, that is.

[RedLineMike]

i have a 99 pontiac grandprix GTP, 3.8 litre supercharged v6, stock is 225bhp, with an exhaust, smaller charger pulley & roller rockers should make 300bhp,

Size wise engine is roughly 24"x24"x24"

have a remaped ecu & custom loom for it, car is complete & can be driven, gearbox is also available if needed, looking for £1300 as i need the car gone before i move house & dont have the heart to scrap it

[Bowie69]

That is a billy-bargain, don't tempt me to put it in my Morris Minor, reckon it would fit!

[need4speed]

* Mrs Doyle from father ted accent * Ahh go on, go on..

[FridgeFreezer]

The initial purchase cost of an LS might be low, but experience has shown that finding parts is ridiculously difficult. Unless you want to sell a kidney to fund an idler pulley, that is.

You do need a little more thought / advance planning to source spares from the states but they're generally pretty good, just a bit extra P&P for those bits that can't be sourced locally. Some Us suppliers are unfamiliar with the outside world but there are enough good ones who'll ship sensibly worldwide.

On the flip side, you wanna try buying replacement bits for a heavily modded Rover V8 - ask Nige about having to source custom head gaskets etc. because every part has been skimmed, ported, or otherwise fettled so nothing standard fits - and if the guy that did it goes out of business or retires you may be out of luck altogether.

[RedLineMike]

That is a billy-bargain, don't tempt me to put it in my Morris Minor, reckon it would fit!

Or make me an offer so someone else can benefit from it

[robertspark]

LS

..the catch is to try to get the thing as complete as possible as trying to get missing bits will nickel and dime you to death including shipping, the catch is also try to book a stateside shipping trip too at least you get a holiday out of the equivalent shipping vat and duty costs you would have spent, that's the killer, shipping vat and duty

If I was doing a UK manufacturing business out of business I'd be happy to accept the cost of trying to be dissuaded from buying abroad, but its all USA (or Mexico..) Manufactured

[landroversforever]

That is a billy-bargain, don't tempt me to put it in my Morris Minor, reckon it would fit!

Do it!