cookie64 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Right Guys As always i am still in search of my perfect house to buy but am getting bored and my wallet is urging me to start a new landy project so far the ideas i have consist of; buy a 110 strip it rebuild on new chassis with a tdv6 or 8 muahahahahaha does anyone know of anything i should look into or research to make this project a possibility i would probably have to buy everything i need to do it and then go for it in one go also tdv6/8 wise, what gearbox can i attach would it be best sticking with a defender one or get an engine with gearbox? then probably the most awkward part, the loom argghhhhh haha obviously taking a rangy look would be a right PITA so would it be possible to get a stand alone edu and either buy or make an engine loom to suit? thanks tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think you'd need to walk away from any Defender drivetrain/transmission components as the torque of a TDV8 would surely wreck them quicksmart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Its going to get seriously complicated.... The TDV6 and 8 are very complicated, they won't run without the rest of the car or a very expensive after market ECU. The normal ECUs talk to so many parts of the car. Gearbox wise, you're more than likely going to end up with one of the autoboxes that came from the Rangie/Disco, lots and lots of money for a manual box that will cope with the torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Didn't they make the D3 with a manual? Everyone's always throwing about how much these ECUs need the rest of the car, but what essential things can they possibly be tied to? Immobiliser is the only really debilitating thing I can think of, and that most likely has solutions too. And as mentioned, there are aftermarket ECUs that can run it, and they're indeed expensive last I checked. Can't recall who does them, I thought BAS but couldn't find it on their site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 They did do a D3 manual... its what BAS used when they did their 2.7 TDV6 90. The engines are controlled via CAN, which does mean complicated work to stop it talking to the rest of the car. I've been doing a lot of looking into this for a certain something.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Exactly, the engine babbles a lot on CAN, and other systems pick it up and use it. But what inputs does it actually need? Spoofing some CAN messages can't be that hard. They even make a Bus Pirate for CAN these days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Everything is possible, it's only 1's and 0's ... they aren't that frightening when you get down to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 There is a company in a place called whitworth Lancashire The company is called simtek. Or simtech (think it's the first one suggest a google search) they do automotive electrical connectors of all sorts I'm fairly certain they offer a tdv6 or v8 kit (stand alone ecu) to get it working stand alone I'm also fairly certain that ICON or Neneoverland in one of the magazines did one a few years ago. The article eluded to assistance from a small lancs company but never named them It can be done would not know where to start on drivetrain as oil burners are not my thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I'm sure I've seen a TDV6 shoe horned into a Defender, somthing rings a bell about them having to split the one turbo, into 2 smaller turbos to get it to fit in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Oooooo http://www.bodylogicuk.com/product.php/3811614/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatso Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 simtek is correct and they do a kit to put tdv6 into p38 or disco onto their respective boxes i think ,i know the guy who fabbed them ito the cars for simtek to use as guinepigs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Engine package : http://www.bodylogicuk.com/product.php/3811959/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 That's for the ECU only? Think of the V8 you could buy for that money! G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challo Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 http://www.defender2.net/forum/post145843.html Think same or similar vehicle has been on Devon 4x4 forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 That's for the ECU only? Think of the V8 you could buy for that money! G. Looking at the ad the map is interlectual property so cannot be home modded! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 No I don't think it can be modded it's not a megasquirt (which you could probably use with a bit of thought, not sure what it takes to run a diesel these days are they not just similar to a petrol with electrical injectors, crank and maybe a cam sensor..... Maybe a variable vane turbo control... What else does it need? Shooting the breeze curious question. No intention of having a go. For transmission I'd use either a megasquirt transmission controller (first option) or a compushift (well documented routes via google search) Suspect the bellhousing is different to any of the disco or p38 automatics so it would be an adapter plate with a spacer for that. The 700nm of torque in those plots if genuine I would have thought to be a bit high for most of the early disco and p38 automatics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 take full engine, trans and transfer from an accident damaged D3 RRS etc set of P38 axles and bolt it up with full harness and all sensors and then disect to see what circuits you don't need. Been thnking about this a lot myself as I am ever so keen to get past the stumbling block that is progress where so many people are still gagging to get a 2/300Tdi, engines that are 15yrs old for the youngest 300 and upto 25yrs old for a 200. If funds were to permit I would buy an accident damaged motor and find out what I could get rid of without affecting the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Diesels are far more precise that megasquirt, diesels are only controlled by the fuel so it has to be spot on. Ms isn't capable of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Oops sorry I went off topic ... I just found a previous discussion on here around megasquirt and a diesel from about 2008 in short it would probably work with a megasquirt 3 given it has sequential injection available. Thought they were simpler given there was no precise ignition spark or lambda for tuning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Afraid not - i think the injectors on my volvo D5 (2.4 5 cyl ) can fire up to 7 times a cycle! G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Wow didn't realise they fired that frequent. But the magasquirt 3 is a 100mhz chipset. So at 7 x 4 (say it's an 8cylinder 4 stroke) x what 6000 rpm (100 rev per second) that's 2.8 kHz. It also is able to run as a dual processor (I forget the manufacturers term) so it's able to run parrallel mundane continuous events without affecting main processor routine (bit more than just an interrupt service routine ISR) Not trying to prove anything but the ms3 is a whole different animal to the previous two generations. I heard about a guy who put a VW tdi engine in a lotus Elise in what was a fast turnaround and thought he must have dumped the original engine controller and gone aftermarket (like megasquirt emerald or some other alternative) This is the problem with engine manufacturers this side of the pond is they don't offer an easy way of integrating their products into custom vehicles. Take GM, you can buy an LS engine then a manufacturers controller with Drive by wire throttle, COP ignition, sequential injection, dual knock sensors, dual lambda sensors (ok they are narrow band input , they missed a trick there if you ask me!) And then an aftermarket tuner software interface (engine warentee goes out the window when you use it) and you've essentially got an engine with as the manufacturer intended performance and controllability. Ok the next problem is transmission and drivetrain etc But GM seem to have seen a market and a customer with cash and thought that for very little overhead (they make the engines already so are only using spare capacity and they make the controllers too (or supply chain does) with various tunes) they can cash in. Take the lS7 and lS9 GMPP aftermarket offering, if you've got a load of cash burning a hole in your pocket you can go for the ultimate engine building experience and build your own right in the factory to full factory standards and specs, but the brand loyalty and implementation is there. Similar thing with Tremec they offer an manufacturer authorised hotroder sideline business via the TKO 500 or 600 and T56 magnum route. This side of the pond there seems to be nothing equivalent from any of the manufacturers. And let's face it providing these secondary lines of supply will only aide in keeping the primary business operating at higher output filling any gaps (most aftermarket stuff is sold as "off road use only" so allows manufacturers to walk away from litigation issues) Litigation and warrantee issues are a side matter. I expect no warrantee. I do my research, pays my money and takes me chances. I am after all a big boy + back yard mechanic and expect to mod everything to get it to fit or work in my chosen application (it's a hobby) Suns getting to me on holiday sat by the pool nothing better to do. Gone off topic. Feel free to delete or shoot down Short answer is seems you need a load of cash plus time to put a tdv8 or tdv6 in a 110 but it's probably doable but not off the shelf via a kit or materials list. Looking at the torque figures it would be one hell of a machine surprised the factory didn't have a go at one via the LR special vehicles route on a small number and offer them at good margin prices (£50 to 75k) to those that can pay the premium and want a turnkey solution. (Look at the cost comparison of the twisted developments lS3+TKO5/600 in a 110 for a small premium customer market thought the guide price was around £120k) Wouldn't that be a fitting end to the defender as we know it in its current shape!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think the biggest issue for LR in producing a TDV6/TDV8-engined Defender as a "run-out" last-of-the-line special edition would be the whole hassle of type-approvals etc. The Defender in its current incarnation is only still allowed to continue under 'grandfather' regulations - to fit a TDV6/TDV8 would involve major re-engineering that would probably take the resultant vehicle outside the scope of the grandfathering of the already-type-approved version. Given the likely costs and the relatively small sales (even at a high price) the economics would be distinctly unpalatable to the likes of JLR. Given that they can currently sell every Range-Rover/LR4/Evoque that comes off the production-line such a 'special' would be more nuisance than profit-centre. Nevertheless, a TDV6-powered, automatic Defender-90 with all the stability/cornering/suspension/braking/traction-management 'smarts' would be an awesome vehicle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imagedude Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Would it not be easier to put a Defender body onto a TDV6 Disco than to put the Disco engine into a Defender? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I doubt it. Whilst the D3 has a chassis my understanding us that it takes its strength from the monocoque bodywork - this why they said it had 2 chassis. Additionally the modifications required to just line the body up would be enormous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Well it is a nice dream anyway I guess you're defiantly right that JLR sell everything they make and maybe GM had spare capacity when car sales took a dive (I know they mothballed and shut down some if their plants) so it was more of a novelty plus JLR don't make engines (at present) so there is no incentive to set up a hotrod line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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